LiFe Batteries

[K F Wheeler]

Been on the prowl for a couple LiFe batteries that will fit in 1.5 x 3+/- x1"... (At this point I would consider NiCads) Have seen LiFe packs without balance cords... My question is how are the balance cords wired up??? I use to build NiCad battery packs and been soldering for many years. Any reason I couldn't put a cord on a pack???
Maybe, I should also ask how much of a difference balancing a pack makes???
Ken

 

[John Beardslee]

I’ve never seen a LiFe or LiPo pack without a balance plug. I always balance charge every pack every time. If you choose to solder your own, it’s critical to not short out the pack, they can flame and burn extremely fast. Lithium combusts in the presence of oxygen. I’ve taken old dead packs and pierced them with a screwdriver and had them start burning in seconds. Read as much as you can and use caution.
John

 

[Grimracer]

Ken,

I use the Venom 800s LIFEs and like them allot.. i have charged them over and over.. with out a balance lead. Having said this if you can balance charge!

Just to qualify that..

A number of years ago now.. I purposely did not balance my 3S heli packs for one summer.. (I was flying them ALOT!).. that was what.. 9 or so years ago.. ZERO performance issues, ZERO issues of any kind.. the packs did not degrade AT ALL.. (I still fly them)

IF YOU CAN.. balance charge. Its a good metric to keep an eye on!

IN THEN END.. If you choose a LIFE super.. if you choose a LIPO.. I would not charge them in the boat anyway!

Grim

 

[Mike Hughes]

I’ve never seen a LiFe or LiPo pack without a balance plug. I always balance charge every pack every time. If you choose to solder your own, it’s critical to not short out the pack, they can flame and burn extremely fast. Lithium combusts in the presence of oxygen. I’ve taken old dead packs and pierced them with a screwdriver and had them start burning in seconds. Read as much as you can and use caution.
John

Your old enough to know that is the way they use to come John. You just never played with electric stuff. LOL

I have been flying on lion cell for ever. It used to be the hard cell Lion were the sh.t back in the day. Before Lipo came out. Way out preformed any nicad/nimh. The first cells you could get in Lipo were just that. The cell it self. No made packs. We use to build our own and never balanced them. These were very low amp draw 1200 mah packs as they could not handle the big amps yet. Use them in 7-10 gram foamy planes. You could fly for 40 mins easy. They did not balance battery for the first 10 yrs or so. Just charge at 1C and you should have no issues.
Mike

 

[John Beardslee]

Your old enough to know that is the way they use to come John. You just never played with electric stuff. LOL

I have been flying on lion cell for ever. It used to be the hard cell Lion were the sh.t back in the day. Before Lipo came out. Way out preformed any nicad/nimh. The first cells you could get in Lipo were just that. The cell it self. No made packs. We use to build our own and never balanced them. These were very low amp draw 1200 mah packs as they could not handle the big amps yet. Use them in 7-10 gram foamy planes. You could fly for 40 mins easy. They did not balance battery for the first 10 yrs or so. Just charge at 1C and you should have no issues.
Mike

I made the change in my heli’s for receiver power in the 90’s, those were Fromeco packs from Sandy Oregon, all had built in blinky balancers. Later my Logo 10 electric heli’s were 5S2P and 5S1P packs made by Max Amps all had built in balancers or plugs to balance charge or use an external balancer. ie: blinky, common sense rc etc.

 

[K F Wheeler]

Nice to hear all the input!!!
Two things... 1. I have no experience with LiPos... And since this is suppose to be a hobby there fore, fun. I choose to not have anything to do with something that may blow up!!!
2. Supply of small LiFe packs are almost -0-... Finally found a 1450mAh pack about a half inch longer than what I thought would work. Turns out they are quarter inch too long for one radio box. The 1100mAh pack I got from Daniel WILL fit in that radio box that's already made up. Second radio box that's made up WILL allow a 1450mAh pack. Just have to go spend another $35.99 + tax. Sooo... Luckily the radio box I was scratch building for the third boat is j-u-s-t long enough!!!
Ohhh... By the way, the 1450 packs don't have balance wires...
Ken

 

[Grimracer]

Amazon.com: Venom Power 10C 2S 850mAh 6.6V Life TX/RX Transmitter and Receiver Battery : Toys & Games

 

[Daniel's Racing]

Nice to hear all the input!!!
Two things... 1. I have no experience with LiPos... And since this is suppose to be a hobby there fore, fun. I choose to not have anything to do with something that may blow up!!!
2. Supply of small LiFe packs are almost -0-... Finally found a 1450mAh pack about a half inch longer than what I thought would work. Turns out they are quarter inch too long for one radio box. The 1100mAh pack I got from Daniel WILL fit in that radio box that's already made up. Second radio box that's made up WILL allow a 1450mAh pack. Just have to go spend another $35.99 + tax. Sooo... Luckily the radio box I was scratch building for the third boat is j-u-s-t long enough!!!
Ohhh... By the way, the 1450 packs don't have balance wires...
Ken

Ken,
It sounds like that pack may have built in BMS which you do not want in the radio box. The price and the fact there is no balance cable is a good hint it has it. You do not want electronics in the battery capable of shutting off the battery.
Do you have a link for the pack you bought ?

 

[K F Wheeler]

Daniel.
Don't have a link. These are Spektrum sold by Horizon Hobby. I could open up the pack and disable any wires other than the obvious straight connection, couldn't I? I see Technology Hobbies inc. carries the Zippy 1100 batteries. Going to try and see if they still have any. WITH the balance cord like the one I have.
Thanks for the help Daniel!
Ken

 

[Daniel's Racing]

Ken,
The BMS in batteries is also the balancer circuitry.

You can't really remove it unless you eliminate it and go straight to battery for the discharge and then would also need to add the balance cord so it has individual access to every cell.

LiFe batteries absolutely must be balance charged. Only .1 volt over charge of a cell over the max charge voltage the chargers are already set to can be damaging to the cell that starts out higher than the others. It will over charge any cell that starts higher than the other one(s) in the pack.


I couldn't find the Specktrum 1450 except ones that have balance cord. Like these, But all have balance cables.

1450mAh 2S 6.6V Li-Fe Receiver Battery (SPMB1450LFRX): Spektrum - The Leader in Spread Spectrum Technology (spektrumrc.com)

Amazon.com: Spektrum 1450mAh 2S 6.6V Li-Fe Receiver Battery : Toys & Games

 

[K F Wheeler]

I'd like to know if anyone has a diagram for the balance wiring? If it's simple enough I may attempt to do my own balance cord.
Ken

 

[Shannon Muth]

I have been using Hyperion Life LiFe batteries for several years without a single failure. They have several sizes/capacity to choose from and they're priced right.

 

[Bill Brandt]

https://www.allrc1.com/product-page/fantom-life-900mah-20c-receiver-pack
About as small as they get.

 

[K F Wheeler]

Do you have any Bill? With or without balance wires? A picture or sizes would help.
I thought I tried your web site first. But I don't remember doing so...
Thanks, Bill.

 

[Daniel's Racing]

I'd like to know if anyone has a diagram for the balance wiring? If it's simple enough I may attempt to do my own balance cord.
Ken

Ken,
Facing the end of a JST XH plug with the twin polarization tabs facing UP you start at left side with the packs negative then you hit each cell positives for the rest of the wires from left to right.

Facing the end not where wires come out the back.

black - then- 1st cell positive -then- 2nd cell positive

I can draw what I mean if that doesn't make sense.

 

[DON MAHER]

Daniel,
A picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[K F Wheeler]

What Don said!!
Bill Brandt RattlesnakeRC CAME THROUGH!!!! THANK YOU, BILL!!! Picking up two 900mah batteries WITH balance cords!
Tried six or seven other places...
Ken

 

[Grimracer]

Looks like Bill has a clear winner.

Grim