Internal stinger

[Kez]

I find the Prather muffler to be too loud. Read about internal stinger on this forum. I am thinking of adding an internal stinger and still use an after muffler. Did a search but couldn't find the thread.

I am going to try it on a Picco P-45. It is a Mac .45 pipe. What size tubing do I use to make the internal stinger? Do I find one that telescope into the tuned pipe stinger? How do you attach it? Will JB weld hold up? Do you use brass tube or aluminum tube? How long?

I hope combining the internal stinger and the after muffler will lower the noise level.

Thanks,
k

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Kez,
The internal stinger muffling works great,,, by using a Prather muffler in conjunction should really quet it down.
Terry Keeley is who sent me his instructions on how to do, just looked, must have deleted the message..
What I do, is measure the existing stinger ID, and use brass tubing of that size.
I open the stinger up to the OD of the appropriate brass tubing.
Make the length of the brass from the end of the stinger outlet to the widest point of the pipe. (if pipe has a flat band, I go to the center of the flat band)
Remember to drill a 1/16" hole in the brass tubing just inside the stinger where it starts to enlarge (water drain hole)
Yes JB Weld has held up fine for me,, Think that is what Terry suggested also.
I do use the next size smaller brass tubing, inserted and run out the inlet end of the pipe, so I can center the internal stinger in the pipe (just me being ANAL)
remember, the pipe stinger must be very clean & roughened up, along with the brass tubing OD where the JB Weld will be.

 

[ChrisCapaldi]

Here is an old posting from Terry on how he does it:

https://www.intlwaters.com/threads/muffled-vs-non-muffled-pipes.75143/#post-730569

 

[Kez]

Thanks Rick and Chris for your replies. Exactly the information I need to get started. The only thing I am not sure is whether JB Weld will hold up. Years ago I tried using JB Weld to glue an aluminum ring around the exhaust stub to keep the tuned pipe coupler from slipping. The JB Weld quickly turned black and brittle after a few runs.

k

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Thanks Rick and Chris for your replies. Exactly the information I need to get started. The only thing I am not sure is whether JB Weld will hold up. Years ago I tried using JB Weld to glue an aluminum ring around the exhaust stub to keep the tuned pipe coupler from slipping. The JB Weld quickly turned black and brittle after a few runs.

k

Kez
The heat at the exhaust stub or the inlet of the pipe is WAY hotter than the stinger end.
My 20 Seaducer has had an internal stinger W/ a small diamond after muffler and has been fine for at least 10 years.

 

[Terry Keeley]

3/8" ID (13/32" brass tubing) works well for 45's, haven't had one fail yet with JB weld.

Man if I had a nickle for every one of these made in the past 20 years.

 

[Brad Christy]

Terry,

What would be wrong with using the K&S aluminum tubing, and having it laser welded?

Asking for a friend.....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BklackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

 

[SayMikey]

Terry,

What would be wrong with using the K&S aluminum tubing, and having it laser welded?

Asking for a friend.....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BklackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

We poor people have poor ways....Bubble gum and shoestrings

 

[Terry Keeley]

Terry,

What would be wrong with using the K&S aluminum tubing, and having it laser welded?

Asking for a friend.....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BklackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

It's soft so you'd think it would take the vibration but I've never tried it.

I actually use 1/2" seamless tubing in different wall thickness' (0.035, 0.050 and 0.062) and turn them down leaving a step at the end, that way all my 1/2" ID after mufflers fit. I also had a few laser welded and others just glued with JB weld.

 

[Terry Keeley]

Terry,

What would be wrong with using the K&S aluminum tubing, and having it laser welded?

Asking for a friend.....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BklackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

It's soft so you'd think it would take the vibration but I've never tried it.

I actually use 1/2" seamless tubing in different wall thickness' (0.035, 0.040 and 0.062) and turn them down leaving a step at the end, that way all my 1/2" ID after mufflers fit. I also had a few laser welded and other just glued with JB weld.

EDIT: Mods please delete, I see we're back to the errors and double posting again...

 

[Kez]

I have some 3/8" K&S tubes and tried to install it this afternoon. The tuned pipe exhaust ID is just undersized. I do not want to drill it out. Is there anyway I can 'expand" the ID or 'shrink' the OD of the K&S tube?

I am not a machinist but I do know a brass or aluminum tube can be drawn through a die to reduce the diameter. Is it possible to make a simple die to reduce the OD?

Thanks,
k

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Use the chuck end of a drill bit or a socket of appropriate size to work it into the stinger, stretching it

 

[Buckshot]

I have some 3/8" K&S tubes and tried to install it this afternoon. The tuned pipe exhaust ID is just undersized. I do not want to drill it out. Is there anyway I can 'expand" the ID or 'shrink' the OD of the K&S tube?

I am not a machinist but I do know a brass or aluminum tube can be drawn through a die to reduce the diameter. Is it possible to make a simple die to reduce the OD?

Thanks,
k

For opening up pipes I use this:
https://www.amazon.com/Expander-Exp...d_rd_i=B077RT3D79&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_42_i

 

[Davidkrienke]

I have some 3/8" K&S tubes and tried to install it this afternoon. The tuned pipe exhaust ID is just undersized. I do not want to drill it out. Is there anyway I can 'expand" the ID or 'shrink' the OD of the K&S tube?

I am not a machinist but I do know a brass or aluminum tube can be drawn through a die to reduce the diameter. Is it possible to make a simple die to reduce the OD?

Thanks,
k

I just did one the other day in a ops 3280 pipe and I just took and chucked the brass tube in a drill and spun it with sandpaper until I was able to get a real tight fit. I went 120 grit then upped the grits finer until it was smooth and jammed it in there. You can even make the first few inches smaller so it slides easy then make the last inch or so the right size and tap it in to fit.

 

[Tim Kish]

Loctite 620 bearing retaining compound works great for internal stingers and so many other things.
Very easy to use and will not fail !
No special fit required, slip fit or even a little loose and this stuff will work, and no brittle materials to break of and get drawn through the engine.

 

[Kez]

I want to reduce the OD of a length of 13/32 brass tubing that I have without sanding it. I figured if I use a tube cutter but replace the blade with a roller, I may be able to shrink the OD just enough.

I did it manually first but it works much better when I Chuck it in a drill. It worked. Just want to share this trick for those of you who don’t want to drill out the pipe or sand down the reverse stinger

 

[Davidkrienke]

It's soft so you'd think it would take the vibration but I've never tried it.

I actually use 1/2" seamless tubing in different wall thickness' (0.035, 0.040 and 0.062) and turn them down leaving a step at the end, that way all my 1/2" ID after mufflers fit. I also had a few laser welded and other just glued with JB weld.

EDIT: Mods please delete, I see we're back to the errors and double posting again...

I installed a 11/32 tube to just before the high point in my ops 21 pipe last season and I noticed now the pipe seemed short and the needle was super touchy . Is that just the case when you add length past the high point. should I just lengthen it and be fine or does it need something else to work better ?. Just trying to quiet my little rigger down .This pipe in the picture I think its a Irwin pipe is also working well and is pretty quiet just it weighs more than the ops pipe.

 

[Terry Keeley]

I installed a 11/32 tube to just before the high point in my ops 21 pipe last season and I noticed now the pipe seemed short and the needle was super touchy . Is that just the case when you add length past the high point. should I just lengthen it and be fine or does it need something else to work better ?. Just trying to quiet my little rigger down .This pipe in the picture I think its a Irwin pipe is also working well and is pretty quiet just it weighs more than the ops pipe.

+/- 1/4" of the mid point shouldn't matter I'd think. If you changed the original stinger diameter when you installed the 5/16" ID tube your needle would be off due to changes in backpressure, could that be it?

 

[Davidkrienke]

+/- 1/4" of the mid point shouldn't matter I'd think. If you changed the original stinger diameter when you installed the 5/16" ID tube your needle would be off due to changes in backpressure, could that be it?

That is all I can think of is the back pressure has changed. That was my thought on using the 11/32 instead of a smaller diameter it looks like it would flow fine but maybe I was on the edge of having total pipe length too short and this threw it over the hill . I will lengthen the pipe again and try it and see what happens. I have a good fit in the end of the pipe hate to pull the stinger back out if I don't have too it seemed to quiet it down some for sure.

 

[Terry Keeley]

11/32" (5/16" ID) is what I use for 21's...