3D Printing

[Jim Allen]

I saw these articles and thought they were interesting.

https://all3dp.com/german-prototyper-3d-prints-motor-block-aluminum/

https://all3dp.com/3d-printed-rc-planes-czech-pilot-shares-beautiful-designs/

Jim Allen

 

[LohringMiller]

I have a 3D printer and have been having fun with it. The really hard part is learning 3D modeling to feed the printer some projects and modify others. Fortunately, Fusion 360 is really capable and is free to hobbyists. So far I've been running some 3D printed sponsons on my P limited Raptor and working on a 3D printed outboard leg design for a P limited motor. Once I get this to work I'm thinking about a gas outboard lower unit.

I have a "program" in Fusion 360 that designs model props. It still needs a little work, but the plastic printed props are almost ready to investment cast into real ones. I'm also working on 3D modeling Dry Martini from measurements and pictures on the real boat. I could then print an electric powered version complete with 3 occupants, twin outdrives and adjustable tabs. It's all been a learning experience. I've also gone crazy printing lithopanes, trinkets for my wife, and of course model airplanes. 3Dlabprint has some great ones. I also printed a Pipboy 3000 (look it up) for my son, a case for my $25 oscilloscope, some horses for a board game, and a semi scale German Tiger tank to terrorize the boaters I can't otherwise beat.

So far I've completed a Spitfire like the one Jim posted and am working on my favorite airplane, the P 38. Unfortunately, the 3Dlabprint one doesn't have fowler flaps. I'm working on designing wings that duplicate the 3Dlabprint ones but with fowler flaps. Once again this has been a learning experience in Fusion 360. These days even old people can go back to school on you tube and learn new things. Lars Christensen's videos are extremely helpful. I couldn't have done the 3D modeling without his help. Below are pictures of some of the projects I mentioned.

Lohring Miller

 

[LohringMiller]

Here's the famous Pipboy 3000 and the horses with the P lomited lower for a size comparison. The current lower is designed for an aluminum skeg. The plastic one wasn't thin and stiff enough.

 

[Jim Allen]

I agree Lohring,there is a great deal of information on line. I have posted some photos of the cowling of an airplane my grandson & I are making. There are many advances in the types of materials that could be used for a boat hulls.

Jim Allen

 

[Kris Flynn]

wow Lohring...the OB is a great idea! please keep me informed on the progress of those units

 

[camaroboy383]

3d printing is great! And printers are cheap now for FDM machines... I have 4 printers of various size, what I love the most is the ability to 3d print pva cores for glass or carbon layups.. the pva dissolves in water.. leaving you your part with little cleanup..

Daul extrusion is nice as well.. can print support in pva and wash it away

 

[longballlumber]

Curious what printer brands your using and what materials are you printing successfully with. I am surprised that your able to print something like a lower unit and it's able to handle all of the stresses from the motor torque and turning.

I am currently have a Monoprice Mini Select V1 and mostly print in PLA and PLA+. I wasn't able to get PETG tuned in very well. While I have been able to print several function components for model boating, they have all been components for use in minimally stressed conditions.

 

[LohringMiller]

I have a Prusa MK3S that I assembled from their kit. I use the Prusa slicer and Simplify 3D for slicer programs. I mostly print in eSun PLA+ for non structural parts. I've also printed Ninjaflex and PETG. I have been using Taulman 910 nylon for structural parts like the outboard parts. The hard part is the 3D design. Fusion 360 works very well, but things like scale engines take a lot of time to draw accurately. Imported pictures, drawings, and 3D models can be traced. The white parts on the tank were designed this way because the original part wasn't detailed enough. Scale drivers, seats and helmets can often be found on line or are easy to draw. Modifying .stl files is a frustrating process if the design is more than slightly complex. It is easier to redraw the P 38 .stl wing by tracing sections and the outline than modifying the imported part. It just takes time and is a learning experience.

The main problem with the outboard lower unit is the threaded propeller adapter. The fine threads don't hold up in plastic. The latest effort runs the propeller shaft directly on the nylon. The next design will have a brass tube with a brazed on threaded end for the prop adapter and a the fin. The gas version would have a brazed on end for the engine mount as well.

The sponsons were printed in PLA. The first design was a thin wall bulkhead and stringer design. It didn't survive the buoy strike structural test. A more standard infill made the heavier, but stronger sponson that is shown in the pictures. Most of the other things in the pictures were printed in PLA+ except for the suspension parts on the tank. I used nylon there for strength and bearing properties. These days almost anything you can make in plastics can be 3D printed. If you need metal, sand and investment castings can be made with 3D printed patterns. I love the ability to proof a design in a real, full size part. The only drawback is the long time to print parts.

Lohring Miller

 

[longballlumber]

Thanks for the reply Lohring...

Is the Prusa worth the money? It sure seems like it! I have been eyeing that printer for sometime now, but haven't mentally justified the cost. Were they any printer modifications necessary to print the Nylon material?

As for the CAD work, that is the no brainer for me. I am a Mechanical Designer and help develop CAD Data Management processes by day. I have decent experience with a high-end CAD/CAE software called Creo Parametric (formally Pro/E). Problem is, after spending the day staring at the CAD tool for the day, the last thing I want to do when getting home is open up the laptop again... LOL

Mike

 

[LohringMiller]

I only have experience with the Prusa MK3. From the beginning, the time between promised kits and parts and actual delivery was very long. I wish I could say the printer was trouble free, but it wasn't. I bought it when the MK3 was first available and updated it continuously. I'm now on the 3rd version of the extruder assembly and it is a big improvement for ease of repair. Prusa continuously updates their firmware and slicer software. That has made everything better.

Building the kit gives you an understanding of the machine that comes in handy when things go wrong. Prusa has great technical articles, but their forum was only marginally helpful. All that said, Prusa support is what sold me the kit. Joseph Prusa is an impressive person who is dedicated to his business. It looked to me like the Chinese copies of his machines were lower quality. Reading various forum posts and videos has confirmed this.

I think it is as good a hobby grade printer as you can get. If I had a need for higher quality small parts I would consider his SL1. However, filament printers can make a huge variety of parts from lots of different plastics. It's been fun to experiment with some. Getting good prints requires fiddling with settings and research.

Lohring Miller

 

[camaroboy383]

While Josef prusa is a great guy and has done quite a bit for the community I have to say the prusa line of printers are just not worth the money.. it is nothing more than a overpriced FDM printer... what it boils down to is knowing your slicer settings and how to trouble shoot your slicer setting errors... the price of the machine is hardly the determining factor for a clean print... I have experience with prusa, creality, monoprice (wanhoa), davinci, and anet printers (direct drive and bowden tube machines).. they all have thier strengths and weaknesses...

Out of all of the above printers, I always recommend the creality line.. they can output extremely nice prints for near nothing money wise... the creality ender 3 has a pretty much identical build volume as the prusa for just over 200 bucks... with the proper settings the quality is superb... prusa has many bells and whistles, trinamic drivers that sense a bind and re home.. live z offsets.. filament jam detection again through trinamic drivers..power resume (which creality has)...

Here is the cold hard truth of all of that... a bind in an axis usually means a print failure, ( a warp typically) which will be scraped and restarted anyway.. then the power loss print resume option, let's be honest, if you have lost power the bed is no longer heated and the pei will release the print anyway, even if it didnt release from the bed (which it will in a significant power loss) the previous layer printed will have cooled completely and when restarted the new layer will not adhere properly to the cooled previous layer... ( again they are all gimmicks) sounds good but is it really helpful? Not at all..

Watch some of the videos on prusa printers where they are showing the features.. he sticks his hand in to bind an axis to show it re home and resume printing... how many people intentionally bind an axis? It doesnt happen, again it will be due to a failed print...

The bottom line is all of the above printers work off of an open source firmware called marlin,(besides davinci) there for have all the same capabilities of print quality regardless of cost..

For the money of a prusa you can purchase a creality s5 with a build volume of 500mm squared plus rolls of filament... having messed with all of them I'd never buy a prusa again, the one I sold will be the last one I own..

As far as resin printers go I would buy a photon long before i bought a sl1...hell, even monoprice has a sla printer now for 200 bucks... knowing your slicer settings is key to any good print...

 

[camaroboy383]

Here are some examples of the quality that can be pulled out of a 240 dollar ender 3 the last picture of the boot is printed in ninjaflex 82a shore hardness.. very soft..

 

[longballlumber]

Thanks for your input. You're not the first to suggest the ender 3 line of printers (Creality).

While my Mini is still working fine, I am considering something that might be more reliable, little better quality, larger build volume, and the ability to print with materials that will allow the creation of functional parts. What I don't want is 3D printing by itself, becoming it's own hobby! Hell, I don't have enough time to build, test, race, and fix the boats I currently have! LOL

I will checkout those printers Creality printers again.

 

[LohringMiller]

That all may be true about the Creality printers, I have never run one. Their cost is attractive. Have you run a Prusa? I felt the continuous updates of both the hardware, firmware, and slicer would keep making the Prusa printer better. I felt the same about Tesla cars versus any other car that's not updatable. So far both choices verify that updates make a better product. That's been true for computer operating systems for decades. Eventually you will need to get all new hardware to take advantage of new developments, but the performance of the old hardware will keep up for quite a while.

Lohring Miller

PS I would buy a Formlabs Form 2 for professional use, but it's cost is a little high for hobbyists just like serious filament printers that costs thousands to tens of thousands are.

 

[camaroboy383]

Yes lohring, as stated above I have experience with prusa printers.. also as stated above I would never buy another one... why spend all that money on something that essentially is the same as a 200 dollar printer that can produce the same results?

Again we are talking about an open source firmware, if your not familiar with open source let me explain... the founder of marlin which everyone used is open source for anyone to use, whether it's a manufacturer or private user.. the stipulation is that when any form of marlin is improved upon it must go back to the source for all to use, or they are in violation of the terms set forth by the founder of marlin, and can see consequences for not doing so.. (mainly manufacturers)...

That being said, you can update your firmware as much as you want per revision, on any brand or any size printer...this is not a proprietary thing that your bound to like most manufacturers out there... but again let me be clear the firmware does not make a printer good, knowing slicer settings does... the above prints I've shown are sliced in cura 3.6.0 that is absolutely free to use, and is constantly revised just like any other slicer software... as far as hardware revisions that's everyone, as time progresses better things come around, but regardless of the brand those new parts will come as a cost to the user... when Josef prusa released the Mk3 those parts became available to the mk2 guys at a cost.. hope you see where I'm going here...

Cost does not make a good printer, understanding how to operate slicers does...

Same with resin printers..

Ac

 

[Tony Jacuzzi]

is there any way to digitally scan a 1/8 scale cowl, then upsize it to 1/6 scale and then 3d print for the basis for a plug and then a mold?

 

[camaroboy383]

Yes Tony, it is possible.. it would first need to be scanned with a decent scanner then imported onto a cad like fusion 360, it then could be scaled in the cad... an even cooler feature would be to have it scaled then create the stl as a mold.. there are many ways to achieve this in fusion...

Ac