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I know, Mike.

I'm beginning to wonder why we even have a scale class at all. Seems like a majority of those that run scale don't want to take the time to do the research to build a boat that looks like the real thing. Seems like the class is, for all intent and purposes, dying. My thought is drop the class and run Sport 60, where details and scaling don't matter. BTW, I'll probably be at E-berg next weekend so, if you're going, I'll see you there
 
WE NEVER SAID THAT SAMUEL!!!!

What I did say, on page 1, is "kits and plans can only take you so far. I know that, truth be told, plan set 108 doesn't really make more than a stand off scale 73 Pak. For those that say "It's close enough" and they're happy with it, that's great.

Same thing goes for the plans I got from Roger to built the 2007 Madison hull. The plans are actually for the Bud T-5 so they don't make a true 0706 either. Those that think they do didn't really do their research as there are actually several very obvious differences between the two hulls.

I also said, on post 18, from this page "My point is, if you're going to build a scale boat, build a boat that APPEARS TO BE SCALE, not a sport 60 with a scale like paint job and claim it's a scale boat. If that means changing plans or modding a kit, so be it. It can still be a good running and reliable boat"

To me, a "museum quality boat" would have all exposed wiring and lines visible and in the correct locations, all access panels in the correct location AND REMOVABLE, true to scale running gear, etc. No where have I ever said that I want museum scale. I just would like to see a scale boat look correct, not like something it isn't. For example, I don't want to see a 1996 Bud T-5 painted up as the 2007 Madison when the whole right side of the of the actual boats are not the same. Neither are the left side rear decks. Just a quick look at the two boats will make that obvious to anyone that's paying attention.

With all that said, I know I've just wasted around 10-15 minutes and a couple hundred key taps since most don't give a **** to begin with or really care what it takes to make a credible scale so I'm done with this thread until others that really want to build a scale boat chime in
 
"When Mike L made the comment earlier in this discussion that he had removed the air trap in the 108,109 hulls because it performed excellent without them, well that is his opinion and I would have not purchased the kit, because it was not what I wanted and did not match up even close to the Newton plans I have."

While some of the posts on this thread are down right laughable let's be clear about one thing - Roger's plans were often altered by him to improve how they would run based off of the available power plants at that time. That included things like increasing attack angles on the underside and deeper air traps to hold more air under the boat. I even have a set of plans Roger did of a late 60s boat that are so far off from the real one that I redrew them so it would look more like the actual unlimited (yeah that far off). I have been building and racing scale for a long time and appreciate what Roger did for the class back then but with what we have now if you build directly off of the plans you will probably own a boat that will turn into a kite over 50mph (and yes a 108 hull runs way better without the air traps in my opinion). Mike's kits are based off of Roger's plans with changes made to make them more stable and better performers with today's higher power motors. And when the boats are out on the water not one of you has the eyesight to be able to see those changes and say it doesn't look scale. And don't even get me started on the NW scale boats on a different level as I've seen more than a few in pics over the years that were not "correct"...............
 
I was wondering if the plans helped with construction of one of Mike's kits. I think I've talked myself into thinking that it's a good idea to have them for laying things out. Figuring what angels are needed for the header. Bending the stuffing box. Stuff like that. Beginner looking for advice because there is none locally.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am glad you chimed in Don. You have been one of my biggest supporters, raced my designs, Concourse-ed my designs, and also helped me design many of the kits I offer properly with your expertise. For all the effort you have put into a lot of these kits, THANK YOU. Without you, and several others, I could not have done what I have. There are so many good people that have stepped up, contacted me, and shared their secrets to building a good running hull, and asked me to share those ideas with the rest of the boating community so they could benefit as well. With that being said:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]This whole thread is getting laughable.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Then I hear people talking about scale dying. Let me say something, and I hate to do it as it may just cost me future business, but I am tired of getting beat down over what I have tried to do for the scale hobby....[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If I didn't draw and make the 150+ kits I have drawn in the last 8 years...scale might well have been dead by now. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The Gas scale class...well, let’s just say there would only be a small hand full of hulls even available to the builder, and even some of those glass hulls started as one of my kits, and plugs and molds were made.the 108 gas hull that RC Boatcompany sells is a direct example. The rest would have had to be done from scratch, and the interest would have dwindled due to the fact that some of the main racers in the country that make canopies probably would have never even made a wood hull, or designed and built the corresponding canopy that most people are buying from those guys to complete their own builds. I have opened up the doors for a lot of other people in the world to make new products for the scale classes due to the availability of the kits I offer. The simple fact is, today's world is so fast paced, that the average hobbyist doesn't have the time, or tools to scratch build framing, nor do they have the interest to recut and recut because their templates don't quite fit. My prices are so cheap on these kits, that you can barely go to your local hobby shop, buy enough ply to cut, and RECUT the issues you encounter hand cutting a frame. Also, just for the record, it would be very very easy to add air traps back to the 108-109 hulls. It’s only a piece of 1/8" ply strip anyways. I am confused why it is easier to hand cut a whole frame vs just adding this strip with epoxy???[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I have caught a LOT of crap over the years from a few out there who don't like the changes made to the bottom side of the hull. Well, guess what, the rules are written to allow those changes, so I am going to put those changes in there, so the majority of the pack will have a safe, stable running hull, that doesn't blow off with today's power,in turn, risking damage on their $3000 boat, or God forbid, the persons boat in which the blow off hull hits. These kits have also brought in a younger generation into the scale hobby, in turn bringing them to the pond, and the races, and in turn, them teaching their children how to build a wood boat.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Hydro Junkie, you have slammed my kits since 2010, you know nothing about them, nor do you know ANYTHING about me as a person, hobbyist, or man. You have never once picked up the phone to see what kind of person I actually am, instead of judging me when I have to defend my products online. You would find I am actually a really nice guy, with a ton of passion for what I do. I work a day job at a Civil Engineering firm, and do ALL this rc stuff in my spare time, and try to make time for my wife, family and friends. I don't sleep, and when I do, I dream of the next kit I can come up with that will excite my customers as much as it does me.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You have NEVER finished your own build, you go from forum to forum bashing kits in general, and making yourself out to be a scale God of some kind. (Yes, I have seen your threads on RC Universe...endless jabber about things that are beyond ridiculous. Telling your tales to people that probably don't even know what any of it means in an attempt to be something you are not). Even the one boat you did kind of finish was a KIT made by DUMAS. In the 8 years I have been doing this, I have designed over 200 kits, made molds for 20+ various hulls, and you have hand cut what..2 frames, neither of which are even close to be finished.Yet you want to tell me I am in the wrong for making a usable product, or my kits are not scale? By my best estimate, I have put in an average of 10 hours per kit, some kits 40-60 hours of time. That is 1500 hours of my time into just the scale sector of my offerings. Multiply that by what my day job firm bills my time out at..$90 an hour...That is $135,000 of my time spend on making these kits. And when we get really serious about it, I doubt I have sold 600 scale kits in the last 8 years, at an average profit of $30.00...That is only $18,000. So when you put in that much time, and get people interested in being a builder, hobbyist, racer and best of all, friend, come see me, and talk crap to my face instead of hiding behind your keyboard as you have done for so many years. I'm sorry if my post here pisses you off, but you have had it coming for years, and everyone here knows it. Start producing something, and quit giving out excuses to why you have not done something. It is far beyond old.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Sorry to anyone I have offended in this post. I have tried my best to help out the rc boating community, and every once in a while, I see things like this, and let it go, even tho it makes me question why I even try. I try because I like my hobby friends, I like the boats, and like being a part of something that makes people happy. That is all I have to say. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Mike[/SIZE]
 
mike,

thank you for all that you have done to make scale hydroplane kits available and affordable.

I think your kits are perfect. much easier, far more accurate and much better finished parts than cutting from templates.

the only thing I would ask is that you offer a few more scale kits complete with pre-cut skins and sticks.

a lot of extra work on your part but easier for the customer.

your frame kits combined with the newton plans, an rc boat co cowl and a typical zip-kits wood hull build manual

a scale hydroplane project is feasible for an average builder like me.

thank you
 
Grayson,

I'm so sorry that your genuine appeal for advice became such a mess. Let me try to help...

Having built many boats myself from fiberglass to carbon honeycomb to wood kits, I can easily say that Mike's kits are far and away the best thing going for a new guy. Get the kit, skip the paper plans, and just put it together the way it comes. Will it be perfect scale? Probably not. But will you learn a ton and have great fun doing it? Absolutely!

Again I apologize for the way your request has been hacked. You must be very frustrated. If you get stuck along the way I'm happy to help via p.m. if needed, ok?

For Mike L, keep doing what your doing please. I am certain there are far more guys who appreciate your work than may appear here. We're just busy building boats instead of trolling around looking for something to complain about.
 
Thanks Scott. I've seen rivet counters try to run model railroading forums. They just leave a bad taste for all that are actually doing something.

Mike, I am really thankful that you make it possible to build a reliable scale kit. My only headache is which one to build! I've been known to leave a video store after half an hour without a movie....
 
I was wondering if the plans helped with construction of one of Mike's kits. I think I've talked myself into thinking that it's a good idea to have them for laying things out. Figuring what angels are needed for the header. Bending the stuffing box. Stuff like that. Beginner looking for advice because there is none locally.
Hi Grayson, once you decide what boat you want to build get one of Mike's kits then get just the paint/graphics page from David. I will also offer you any help and/or advice that I can provide as well as pics from some I've built. At the bottom of this post there is a link to my pic galleries and there are a few scale builds in there. Attached are a few pics of one of Mike's boats I built as an FE, a couple in progress and one finished.

u16d3.jpg

u16f3.jpg

u16g7.jpg

u16i8.jpg
 
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For my second 1/6 scale build i used Newton 108 plans for dimensions to build a fibreglass hull ,i kept the bottom the same as the drawings apart from the engine pod . From the first run it was obvious that it packed too much air . The first thing i did was to reduce the airtrap height behind the sponsons which did help,but it also needed weight in the front as well as slowing down when there is a headwind. Its fast but ive also flipped it plenty of times .id go with one of the ML kits because you know someones done all research and knows what works.

Im in the process of putting a new bottom on the boat with less lift as ive done with all of my scale boats since.FB_IMG_1533325878973.jpgFB_IMG_1533325797011.jpgFB_IMG_1533325837148.jpg
 
Too much red bull in that boat Scott the way it was but no doubt you will tame the ***** down to stay on the water , but a 23lbs boat should have been adequate to nail it . But credit due to the peoples out there whom help make it what we have access to so we can build scale unlimiteds of whatever scale you choose.
 
Has anyone ordered plans from Newton lately? Their cart isn't SSL so I didn't order. I once had a bad experience with a graphic guy whose Web site is still up. Not Wesley.... just being careful.
 
Hey Grayson, This is David Newton. I am up and running. Please email me what problems you had on the website, I can do an order through email if there is an issue. My email is [email protected]. Just saw this thread today btw or I would have sent you my email before. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
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