Turn pad ?

Hi all. Is there any new outboard tunnel hull designs on the market that DO NOT incorporate the use of turn pads ? I was talking to several club members about this subject and remembering when i build a Dumas hot shot back in 1982 and a Octura Toms cat around 1990 neither designs had turn pads. Regards Andris Golts.

I fully remember the hotshots from the past and loved them...actually still do...
Am I the only one to remember this jem...works wonders...and dont know why its still not being used

I not only remember, I used them. When Geraghty "stumbled" across the front recovery pads it wasn't necessary to raise the bow of the tunnel in a corner.

JD

riggerman said:

Hi all. Is there any new outboard tunnel hull designs on the market that DO NOT incorporate the use of turn pads ? I was talking to several club members about this subject and remembering when i build a Dumas hot shot back in 1982 and a Octura Toms cat around 1990 neither designs had turn pads. Regards Andris Golts.

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riggerman said:

Hi all. Is there any new outboard tunnel hull designs on the market that DO NOT incorporate the use of turn pads ? I was talking to several club members about this subject and remembering when i build a Dumas hot shot back in 1982 and a Octura Toms cat around 1990 neither designs had turn pads. Regards Andris Golts.

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The boats you have mentioned are fun to play around with but they are not capable of performing at the level of the modern boats that you will have to race against at competition.

I know someone who knows how to build a boat that runs great without them...

But most of you designers/builders on here will never acknowledge that someone without "your" pedigree can do something that you can't.

Bill,
I like the fact that you are trying something out of the box. Our sport needs more of that but If you are going to post a video of your boats capabilities to turn, I would like to see a video of your boat turning at full bore for six laps. Never lifting to set the boat and with smooth turns wide open the whole time and in lane 1 or 2 even in moderate chop conditions like in your video. It should be able to survive at that pace for six laps because there will be plenty of conditions just like that in SOWEGA.

It will be fun there. It always is.
-Carl

As long as it fits your driving style then I would say.. what does it matter.

For me.. not that this means anything.. I have never ran a tunnel boat heat without lifting at some point in the race.. or in the lap for that matter.

I have found that if you start to depend solely on the boat to “stay put” you are asking for a loss.

I have raced against a bunch of people.. it’s the ones that run WFO that become the most frustrated by a loss. Most spend too much time on the boat itself, not paying close attention to your line, lift points and the like, some can become dear in the headlight drivers. The focus becomes the end of the race.. not the lap or corner/straightaway at hand to get to the end.

I don’t care about record trials.. so that’s a different conversation.. not for me..


I have setup and run boat types.. (with-without)… again.. as long as it works..


Grim

None of us will better our chances of winning any race on here no matter what BUT things have changed a lot in tunnel design in the last 3 or 4 years. You are correct that once upon a time WOT used to = a big fat DNF in tunnel boat racing however lately it is not true as much with the newer style boats.

What type boats do you plan to bring to Huntsville?

Grimmy, what you said was spot on. You have to be able to adapt to the conditions of the moment. I myself need to work on that. I'm a been a victim of the WFO bug many times.

Carl, after the fiasco that one of my previous threads turned into I probably shouldn't even have posted on this thread. I'm not trying to turn this into a replay of the last, and I don't want a bunch of people jumping in a taking this thread off topic. I didn't mean to digress...

Carl,

I hope to race two Tunnels at the Internats this year.. I will be running a VS1 in Sport and A Nemesis in B.. at least thats the plan LOL

At the end of the day.. I dont care to much what happens.. I want to come to the race to visit.. and do some racing, should be fun..

I would rather go golfing and flying Helis but its been 20 years sense I have been to that pond and a number of years now sense I have run at a Internats...

I am looking forward to it more each day.. (my wife is like.. you get that boat done yet! LOL).. she is pushing hard to get the new Hydro done..

Whatcha running?

Grim

No problem. I understand Bill.

Mike, I was racing my Karma but de-rigged it and sent it to Ron Shaw because people were giving me so much grief about racing something that they could not buy so I will be running one of my production boats in 3.5cc tunnel (the new Taboo). This boat is easy to setup where as the Karma is not easy at all and it requires one certain cut of prop and nothing else will do. If Shaw comes to the Internats you will have to race against a Karma anyway because that is what he will be running. He drives it completely flat smoking out with no letting up in the turns...you'll see. I am not sure I can deal with him I'll just have to stay on him and hope he screws up.

I have not met Ron.. so that will be nice. looking forward to seeing you too..

I dont expect to do well.. Boat racing has not been my focus for a few years now.. but.. if I get in one good side by side.. that would be nice.. should be fun!. then again.. ya never know.. I whopped up on em at the MBC race last year so "OLD AINT GOT ME YET"...

I think my junk boats getting to old...LOL.. my current VS1 is now 11 years old.. My Nemesis is.... lets see... 12 years old..LOL.. I cannot build anymore so its taken then fun out of it for me. And.. I CAN NOT bring my self to run a white boat with decals on it...LOL...

Announcer.....There goes Jimmy John,john.. he is running the white boat with the permanent marker windshield on it! LOL


My first race for 2019 will be the Internats.. Not sure how much testing I will do ether.. I have about a gallon of fuel and so if I make it though that gallon that will be alot of testing LOL.



Grim

Grimracer said:

I have not met Ron.. so that will be nice. looking forward to seeing you too..

I dont expect to do well.. Boat racing has not been my focus for a few years now.. but.. if I get in one good side by side.. that would be nice.. should be fun!. then again.. ya never know.. I whopped up on em at the MBC race last year so "OLD AINT GOT ME YET"...

I think my junk boats getting to old...LOL.. my current VS1 is now 11 years old.. My Nemesis is.... lets see... 12 years old..LOL.. I cannot build anymore so its taken then fun out of it for me. And.. I CAN NOT bring my self to run a white boat with decals on it...LOL...

Announcer.....There goes Jimmy John,john.. he is running the white boat with the permanent marker windshield on it! LOL


My first race for 2019 will be the Internats.. Not sure how much testing I will do ether.. I have about a gallon of fuel and so if I make it though that gallon that will be alot of testing LOL.

Grim

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I will paint a stripe on my boat just for the occasion. LOL You should never give up something you love to do when you still have options. One day you will not have options...just don't wait too long and wish you had kept racing when you still could.

Rigger man.. did you get a answer to your question?

Grim

Riggerman,

I am sorry if we got off track with your thread. Some of us don't talk to each other on here unless there is something to argue about. LOL It's just true.

This is a subject that comes up on here over and over and over and over... and it has been discussed to point of absolute absurdity. There are some that believe that ASP's are needed and others that don't. You will have to decide what you believe yourself by 1) testing and perfecting your theory and 2) racing other boats who use and have perfected ASP (Anti Spin Pad) technology.

Bill Britton has been working on a boat that does not use these pads and we all want to see how his boat runs because if you can figure out how to get a boat to turn "correctly" without the ASP's it will clean up the aerodynamics of the boat and open up other possibilities for improvements. I am not going to say that it will not work because being open minded is how you make improvements to anything.

Perfecting the "total package" is where you need to be headed when designing your boat. So far, I have never seen a boat that operates as it should without ASP's. Bill may be on to something with his boat. We want to see it run and if he has found out how to do this it will be a huge design step. There is no one big trick in tunnel boat design but lots of little ones working together.

A lot of tweaking has taken place since the first boat to hit the pond in the 80's with ASP technology.

-Carl

I'm done.

Carl as you should already know, I am not "working on it". My boats without pads have been raced for almost ten years. They have won races such as the Tunnel Champs and Hobart. I'm not putting them out any longer after the abuse I received on another thread. I've known how to make a boat turn and handle very well without pads for years. When all of the supposed experts said and still say it can't be done, I need to remind everyone that not only can it be done but it has been done years ago. But after the last thread went south I stated then I would not make anymore. I'm not gonna give it away, even though the answer is right in front of your eyes on every single model tunnel boat made.

The experts will need to figure it out for themselves...

Thanks Bill!
I think we have all learned a lot here.

I hope to see you in SOWEGA!

Hi all . Grim i got my answer over the past month i have made up 2 pairs of turn pads first being 1 1/4'' x 5.5'' in length and the 2nd being 1 1/4'' x 6'' in length now i have to figure out how to temporally mount them for testing on the Dunlap 27'' and the Dunlap 30'' both on 4s power. Regards Andris Golts.

Andris,

I would use radio box tape on the boat in the areas you want to place them.. then glue to that. Also.. I start mine at 53% from the back of the sponsors forward.

Grim

RobertDoak said:

I fully remember the hotshots from the past and loved them...actually still do...
Am I the only one to remember this jem...View attachment 271496works wonders...and dont know why its still not being used

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I got two of these kits maaany years ago. When I started to mount one of them I realized that they actually work completely opposite of what they should do.

Bill Britton said:

I'm done.

Carl as you should already know, I am not "working on it". My boats without pads have been raced for almost ten years. They have won races such as the Tunnel Champs and Hobart. I'm not putting them out any longer after the abuse I received on another thread. I've known how to make a boat turn and handle very well without pads for years. When all of the supposed experts said and still say it can't be done, I need to remind everyone that not only can it be done but it has been done years ago. But after the last thread went south I stated then I would not make anymore. I'm not gonna give it away, even though the answer is right in front of your eyes on every single model tunnel boat made.

The experts will need to figure it out for themselves...

Click to expand...

Correct. I have never used "turnpads" and I`m triming in when going into the turns, like you should do ;-)