Esc overhead

BradClaypool · Feb 17, 2019

I am planning on running a TP 4070 910kv on 8s

Is it ok to use an esc rated for 8S or do you need some overhead on the voltage rating. I will install a cap bank on the esc also. What I had in mind is Swordfish X + 200A

LohringMiller · Feb 18, 2019

I run 8S on a stock Castle Phoenix 200 controller with water cooling. It works very well. I'm sure it could stand 300 amps without problems.

Lohring Miller

BradClaypool · Feb 18, 2019

Thanks Lohring

HTV Boats · Feb 18, 2019

The Castle properly cooled is more than capable but very touchy if it gets wet. For that motor I would bypass the 200X and get a 300 Swordfish. It's big but bulletproof.

Mic

BradClaypool · Feb 18, 2019

HTV Boats said:
The Castle properly cooled is more than capable but very touchy if it gets wet. For that motor I would bypass the 200X and get a 300 Swordfish. It's big but bulletproof.

Mic

I was hoping to do this without breaking the bank. Do you think I will fry the 200X?

Any other good options other than the 300X

HTV Boats · Feb 18, 2019

You may not smoke the 200X but you have no buffer and already have a large watt motor. Hard not to put fast props on when you have the power. I have a pile of 200-220amp ESC's on my "healing shelf" that I wish I would have just spent an extra hundred on and bought more amps. On my 39" DF mono with a TP4060 1350kv on 8s I pulled over 4000watts and 160-200 amps for 2 lap record attempts. Castle200 Phoenix water cooled. Your 4070 is capable of more power.

Mic

BradClaypool · Feb 19, 2019

HTV Boats said:
You may not smoke the 200X but you have no buffer and already have a large watt motor. Hard not to put fast props on when you have the power. I have a pile of 200-220amp ESC's on my "healing shelf" that I wish I would have just spent an extra hundred on and bought more amps. On my 39" DF mono with a TP4060 1350kv on 8s I pulled over 4000watts and 160-200 amps for 2 lap record attempts. Castle200 Phoenix water cooled. Your 4070 is capable of more power.

Mic

I get your point, I am not intending on racing it, just wanted something to play around with on a lake up north. When you guys water cool the Castle 200 Phoenix, is it the Edge or Lite?

I have access to a lot of water cooled heat sinks, Do you just bolt the esc to a cooling plate, or is it more involved?

longballlumber · Feb 19, 2019

BradClaypool said:
I get your point, I am not intending on racing it, just wanted something to play around with on a lake up north. When you guys water cool the Castle 200 Phoenix, is it the Edge or Lite?

I have access to a lot of water cooled heat sinks, Do you just bolt the esc to a cooling plate, or is it more involved?

While I have used the "lite" version in the past, howeverI find disassembling the "standard" version and using thermal epoxy directly on the buss bars is FAR more efficient at cooling. Keep in mind heat (and moisture) is what kills controllers. The better you cool them the longer they will last.

BradClaypool · Feb 19, 2019

longballlumber said:
While I have used the "lite" version in the past, howeverI find disassembling the "standard" version and using thermal epoxy directly on the buss bars is FAR more efficient at cooling. Keep in mind heat (and moisture) is what kills controllers. The better you cool them the longer they will last.

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After reading your post, I did some searching and found that a lot of guys water cool the castle controllers... in different ways. Also saw some posts about adding a fan to the stock controller. Have you ever tried that? I'm sure water cooling is more efficient, but maybe in my case with short run times, air cooled may work?

longballlumber · Feb 19, 2019

No, I've never tried a fan. Water cooling is going to be far superior to forced air with a fan.

BradClaypool · Feb 19, 2019

longballlumber said:
No, I've never tried a fan. Water cooling is going to be far superior to forced air with a fan.

Very true

BradClaypool · Feb 20, 2019

Mike,

I noticed on OSE that you had shown interest in water cooling the Turnigy Trackstar 1/5th scale, 200A/ 8S esc

Did you ever pursue doing that? Looks like a reasonably priced option.

Thanks

Brad

longballlumber · Feb 20, 2019

BradClaypool said:
Mike,

I noticed on OSE that you had shown interest in water cooling the Turnigy Trackstar 1/5th scale, 200A/ 8S esc

Did you ever pursue doing that? Looks like a reasonably priced option.

Thanks

Brad

Hi Brad,

No, I never perused it. I've had pretty good luck with the Castle controllers (knock on wood) in my higher amp setups. I've yet to burn one up. I take that back, I had a 130amp Edge Lite burn up in a P-Limited boat. I never found out why, but that controller should have NEVER burnt up with that motor, boat, and prop combination.

BradClaypool · Feb 20, 2019

I'm probably digging to deep into this, but my interest has peaked on these esc's. I have looked up the specs on the FET's used in the Turnigy. (Nexperia 40V/100A continuous current, 2.6m ohm on Res, 10 devices in each leg) Do you happen to know what devices are in the 200A Castles? I'm curious if they use the same components

If I'm being a pest...please say so. I really do appreciate your help! Been reading so much, trying to get up to speed on the converting this hull.

Thanks

longballlumber · Feb 20, 2019

I will try and remember to look at a couple of Castle ESCs that have been disassembled. Not being a pest, just be careful. "CHEAP" when it comes to FE stuff can be just that. Typically, you will find the cheaper the component the more variation in QC. I would also add, just because someone reported the FET type on that Turnigy a few years ago doesn't mean the manufacturer hasn't made changes. That actually happens quite often. We've seen it with FE motors coming from China. Good components/materials being used at the initial release, then replaced with lower quality after they sell a few... Again, just my opinions and you won't know unless you buy one.

I trust Castle being a US based company they are controlling QC better than a company that is simply importing a product.

BradClaypool · Feb 20, 2019

Again, thanks for the reply. I actually was not impressed with Turnigy's component selection, 40volt devices on 8S is cutting it close in my book. That is why I was wondering what devices are in the Castle...specifically the voltage rating. Your right about them possibly changing devices in midstream...whatever is the cheapest at the time. China!!

Have you always added cooling to the busbars instead of directly on the FET's?

longballlumber · Feb 20, 2019

NP...

The only thing I was able to make out on the top of FET’s on the Castle was ”019n04ns”. I am not sure if this is helpful or not. Hopefully Tyler will see this thread and chime in. He is much more in touch with the construction of castle ESC’s than I am.

Others have used Aluminum extrusions the semi-cover the FET’s and the buss bars. I still prefer the buss bar method for a couple of reasons;

1. I can put tubes on both side and the each side has an opertunity to pull heat.

2. In order to have effective cooling you need to have postitive surface area contact with ALL the FET’s AND the buss bars. Problem is not all of those surfaces are on the same plane. You also need to have a thermal paste that isn’t conducive when trying to contact all the parts at one time. I don’t like the idea of any foreign paste or epoxy bridging the contacts of the FETS. Call me paranoid....

BradClaypool · Feb 21, 2019

The FET used in the Castle is an Infineon device. It does have a lower On resistance than the Turnigy Fet, 1.9 ohms vs 2.6 ohms. However in the case of an esc, it would be the switching losses that increase heat. We typically keep junction temperature less than 80 deg C in a DC applications and when used in pulsed applications, pulse to pulse temperature rise is limited to 15deg C rise. The killer in power devices is thermal cycling. We tend to de-rate devices by 50% in order to provide reliable long term operation. Our control and high power circuits run 24/7, 365 days a year. It's amazing how few failures occur when some overhead is built into the system. I'm tempted to buy the Turnigy esc and replace the FET's with a device that won't be stressed....I probably won't do it, but just a thought.... I should play it safe and use your proven setup.

Thanks

Brad

BradClaypool · Feb 22, 2019

Hey Mike,

One more question... I see some guys are converting the Mamba XLX to water cooling. Do you know the difference between the Edge and Mamba. I did quite a few searches but couldn't find the answer.

Thanks

longballlumber · Feb 22, 2019

Hi Brad,

I am told they are the same boards/components just a different software. This is only "hear-say" I have no facts to back that up. I recently purchased one to try. One of the biggest issues nearly all boaters face when using the "Air" controllers from Castle is the software. The ability to program "Air" controllers using a wheel style controller can be a challenge. For me this isn't an issue, as I still use a stick style controller for my boats. The Hydra series and Mamba controller help bridge that issue due to the software.

Esc overhead

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