what to do with the impba internats

since there is chatter about the lack of turn out in the race section on the nats i figure without posting there i would start this. i am curious what everyone thinks the decline over the yrs has been for the nats.

the nats was supposed to be the premier race for the governing body. it has fizzled to nothing over the yrs for the most part.

i would like to discuss it and try to figure out a way to revive it.

with that being said. i am not going to suger coat things either. My opinon of why is that there is to many classes.. way to many. and to long of time frame.

the other thing and personally i think this is the main issue.. having a club host it. nobody ( or very few ) want to mess with it. to much work. very little profit made, and again to much time..

why couldn't we make it a 3-4 day even the same time every yr. split it .. you have the outboard nats. hydro nats. and mono nats..

or we look at cutting classes all together. i know it is hard to do but it is a fact either the boats change to survive or we don't. i know with cars over time classes come and go. guys complain but they either build another car/truck or don't race.. pretty simple.

curious how this discussion will go.

keep it civil please

chris

I like the splitting it up idea a lot. Have the Hydro, Mono, and Tunnel Separate.

Good topic Chris.

The Nats have been in a decline for over 10 years now, and there's many reason why. We need to build up the desire to attend/put-on these events. I believe that we need to take a break of trying to put this event on every year. Put on the Nats every 3-4 years, kind of like the Olympics, this way, people will miss it, and have a desire to go, and clubs will have plenty of time to plan and get their ducks in a row.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve Ball

sam

I THINK it would work. but the issue remains that some people run say monos and tunnels.. well they have to justify 2 different sessions. different times of the yr.

i really think just to start off with to move this in the right direction.. we need the nats to be in the same location every yr.. not here there and everywhere. consistency. that would require either a dedicated place. or a club lake that could be the dedicated location.

i always thought that getting local business to sponsor the races.. restaurants. hotels ect. while is tuff would help. and get a outside group of people that the impba paid to run the race.. no club involvement. take the pressure of clubs. puts all the burden on the collective group whom ever that maybe.

now would it work? not sure. but i think it would be a good start. i know it was discussed yrs ago but if there was anyway to use the ama's lake they have i would think that would be great. in the middle of the usa. owned by a governing body that has direct contact with the R/C COMMUNITY.

not sure if that is feasible or not ?

Location is the main thing.... Also I talked about this before, but we need to bring back the US1 format its the only way to crown a true champion of each class. Have the race every other year and give the racers plenty of time to plan schedule and enter the race along with plenty of time to promote the race. Not a huge fan of splitting it up due to the fact of the time and money it takes to go racing it wouldn't be worth it to take 1 or 2 boats to me. To have a premier nationals events it will take more than just one club to host in my opinion.

steve i agree totally. i think every 3-5 yrs. i am just really really confident the only way to really drive this back to the top is to get a outside group involved to run the races.. i mean. me and you have discussed this many of times. one of the main things is club burn out.

evansville is one of the premiere facility's in the country and clubs in the country and it wheres them out.. and they have hosted it probably more than anyone ever has. or at least at there location.

sam

what i am with you on the us 1 format. the issue has and probably always will be the amount of time it takes to do the oval and saw events. that i don't think you can change

agreed that it will take a group of motivated people not just one club to make a race like this happen

Chris:

You have "hit the nail on the head" in most of your conclusions.

I CD'd the last full Internats in Charleston and it was just to long for most and to many classes.

The to many classes are the fault of the Board of Directors of IMPBA. Every time someone on the BOD or their friends found a potential new class it was approved and on we went until we have so many classes that every race is full with one or two heats for each class. That doesn't make it a lot of fun to compete. I know, I am OLD and remember the way that it used to be. BUT, when we had just a few classes we could have races with 35-40+ entries in each class. That made it fun to compete and if you won that type class, you had accomplished something. We even had the Indy Unlimited with 1 class of 120 boats. NOW, if you won that one, your REALLY had accomplished something.

Add to that the gas classes (really huge here in Florida) with a ton of classes too, you have a race weekend that one or maybe tow heats is the max that you can run. It has ruined racing both gas and nitro.

We had a nitro only race here in Florida last year that was a huge success. It filled up quickly and we were able to get a lot of sponsors and nice prizes. People have been talking about coming this year from all over the country. I think that we need to have races that limit the number of classes and split up gas and nitro for some races. Would be better for both.

Gas has really bloomed in Florida. Why, you can go to the store or online and buy a ready to run boat and you are set to race. People like that and are willing to spend "Big Bucks" for those boats. Nitro boats are very limited in availability especially in the shelf ready models.

These are a few of the real problems and the only way to cure it is to split things up and have specialty races with limited classes.

I agree with all of what has been said. I saw the decline start after we change the format to the top 5 boats or 20% for the trophy trials. And it was our Director that introduce with format. But the old format did allow for the racers that wanted to run for US 1 to show up on the trophy trial day and run straight away and oval. If you wanted to just run heat racing you showed up after the trophy trials for heat racing. With the 20% format it reduced the power of US 1. And with the change to this new National Champion format the Internats has lost the luster.

When you had 30 to 40 boat per class to race for US 1 you had to do something to make it happen. Anything could happed at that kind of event. I won US 1 myself in 1986. Back into it because the racers that away put down a good number for their trophy trial did not place. It just goes to show you when you have 40 boats to run with in three events it is anyone chance.

The classes are to many for sure. I heard someone say that if we create a class then the boats will be built. What a fool to think that. Classes should be built by districts running a new boat class and then the surrounding districts start running the new class. This allows the class to grow and be stronger. If the class can spread into the other districts over the years then you can think about a new class.

Another factor is the rules for these classes are off the chain. When you start to worry about the width of a gasket you have gone to far. My good friend of many years Fred McBroom said it right. There is no room in this organization for a stock class. And I will say that we must keep the rules simple as we can.

so what if we was to look at shrinking classes? because next to geographical situation that seams to be the other major hurdle.

how or does anyone have any idea on how to go about doing this. i realize that this will open some wounds and upset some but it is one of those things that you have to come to the realization that you either play within a system or don't play.

just curious marty and any others back in the early 90s and 80 what classes was run in the nats? has it change in the number of classes that much?

i am just trying to figure out a solution to this. I hate to see a race go away but i think a combo of making it every so many yrs.. shrinking it down to x number of classes and having it in a central location each time may be the answer ?

Chris Wood said:

so what if we was to look at shrinking classes? because next to geographical situation that seams to be the other major hurdle.

how or does anyone have any idea on how to go about doing this. i realize that this will open some wounds and upset some but it is one of those things that you have to come to the realization that you either play within a system or don't play.

just curious marty and any others back in the early 90s and 80 what classes was run in the nats? has it change in the number of classes that much?

i am just trying to figure out a solution to this. I hate to see a race go away but i think a combo of making it every so many yrs.. shrinking it down to x number of classes and having it in a central location each time may be the answer ?

Click to expand...

Chris:

20 outboard, 20 mono, 20 hydro, 40 outboard, 40 mono, 40 hydro, 60 mono, 60 hydro, F mono, F hydro. The 1/8 Scale was added first as a new class, then Sport 40.

If it were as in tose days, it would be 9 or 10 classes total. You can run 150 heats in 2 days so you can figure out what could be done over a week of Internats.

That would be 250 entries for 3 days of racing with 6 boat heats assuming 70 heats/day. So essentially you could have up to 25 boats per class. This is super workable. The Trophy Trials would have no problem completing in 3 days also.

When we had Trophy Trials in the first 3 days starting on Sunday, you could have anyone not wanting to run Trophy Trials and compete for US#1 they would show up on Wednesday for Heat Racing and have the Banquet on Saturday Night. That makes for a race that can be either 6 days for the ones running for US#1 and 4 days for the ones running just heat racing. We also had several Internats where we raced on the ending Saturday for specialty classes like Sport 40, etc, etc. That day you can run 70 heats so you could fit in several specialty classes.

That is the IDEAL Internats so that people can choose what they want to do during the week. Either run just heat racing or everything and compete for US#1.

If you consider the Trophy Trials as part of the Internats and how it fits into the outcome of the US#1 calculations, it makes a HUGE difference in how the US#1 is selected because anyone running the Trophy Trials have to compete against EVERYONE in his/her class. They have to run against all the people competing for US#1 in both SAW and Timed Oval. That makes a US#1 a very special winner who beat everyone in his/her class.

With the way that Leonard Skwiera made for the calculations to win US#1 and also the Excellence of Performance Trophy Winner, you have probably the best selection of your National Champion and your overall Excellence of Performance Champion.

Personally, I would love to see the old format used again. I think it would invigorate Nitro Racing and we would be selecting a TRUE NATIONAL CHAMPION worthy of the honor.

40 outboard as well...

Marty you are spot on with that. A lot of the racers have never ran the first format. And when you talk about it they all get to saying that it make the Internats to long. The sad thing is they have never had the chance to run that format.

Marty and Mark,

I am with you guys on all of this, my first Big One was Huntsville 1983 Dayum that was fun!!! A central location is great I'm willing to travel and explore. Getting the clubs together to sponser just for the basic setup work for such an event seems to be the big problem I see? You have a twenty member club with three workers?? And 17 Supervisors?? I don't think it's so much sponsorship or raffle contributions that make the event work it just needs a well planned itinerary and schedule of events that will attract the overall competitive crowd. I know costs are a large problem for everyone the lasts Nationals I attended was NAMBA Nats in Nh. back in 2005. What would be a central location for EVERYONE?? St. Louis maybe?? Then it could just be a National Association run show with outside ground work and local clubs Officiating?

Later!!

Pat

pat

i agree about the to many chiefs.. my idea behind a outside body is two fold.

it puts zero burden on the club.. that means more may run more boats since they don't have to run the race.. that means more money for the nats. to pay for people to put the race on.

plus with a outside group running the race it lets them promote it. lets them take care of all the headaches that go with the race. ect ect.

i have ran the old format many times.. i like it. BUT with that being said we are in a age where people just don't want to take off a solid week and live in a hotel to do such anymore.. while i LOVE the format. lets face it. we need to move on from that unless we can somehow speed it up. that is where splitting the nats to a multi nats ( per boat type ) is the only way i see being able to make this format work in this day in age. or we look at downsizing classes for the nats. does every class that impba have to offer need to be offered at the nats?

what about this. this is just a though. again A THOUGH.. what is you have to qualify for the nats..

so you live in dist 12. say they have 5 races a yr. you have to make x percentage of top 3 or 4 races to qualify to go to the nats... only the best of the best get to go? i don't know if it would work but i am just trying to come up with something. and i realize in certain areas where dist are smaller this would complicate things. just kicking rocks here.

i also personally would like to see the race at the end of the yr. most sports. have there premiere event at the end of the yr.. and currently in my eyes that is being held right now in hobart in and the fall nationals.. they are in sept.. to me it makes ZERO sence to have what is supposed to be the biggest race the impba has in the middle of the yr.. i am going to be biased on this statement in the fact that where i live i have like a month and a half to get ready because i live in the frozen tundra part of the usa.. where as people in the south get to prep earlier longer.

just an idea.

this is good thought to have conversations about this.. while i am going here.. gas nats.. what has made it so popular? is it the trend in gas boats? or are they doing something that the nitro nats needs to do?

chris

The Spring nats in Atlanta was low attendance.... the Summer Nats are low Entry.. and the fall nats will be well attended? Maybe we have TOO MANY RACES called the NATS........... Will the REAL NATS please Stand UP............

qualifying races throughout the year

Take the fastest qualifing times you have summit it. Invite those quickest.to fill the real National Invitational

Back in the day when Nitro was popular it probably didn't matter where you held the event, you would get plenty of support from the host district and surrounding districts plus the core group that will travel anywhere.

Now it's completely different, if you don't place the event in an area that still supports nitro you have to rely on that core group to fill the void and that group has been shrinking for a long time

People bring up how well a couple events a year are attended and think nitro is healthy but it's not.At the club level which is the heart of our hobby it's all but dead with a very few exceptions.

Cutting classes would definitely raise the quality of racing for those still interested in Nitro but I don't think that will change the inevitable future.

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