Entry Level Racing Class

As much as I love tunnel boats, there might be an alternative approach for an entry level racing class.

The ShockWave 36 from Horizon Hobbies is a fine running boat. A review of it is featured in the August 2005 RC Boat Modeler. I actually did a lot of the R&D on this hull a couple of year ago. That was just before I started working with AquaCraft.

The price of this boat is $350 and it's RTR. The class could be called Factory 40 RTR Offshore with the class focus being the local clubs working with hobby shops. The are, or will be, other RTR boats that would qualify for the class. It might be possible to even get the manufactuers and RC Boat Modeler involved in promoting the class.

JD

Well Jerry....you hit on a topic that is becoming very passionate to me.

You are so correct, for this sport to grow it starts, as most everybody knows, with getting the new people involved. At this time it is way to difficult for a new person to really get that "racing bug" and for them to stay involved in the hobby.

You first must have a product which allows maximum fun, low frustration level, works very well out of the box and be affordable. It should be a product than is competitive and have the potential to be extremely competitive on a national level. This means upgrades and hop-up accessories for this product. Newcomer can gain experience with it and learn the hobby and then move on to other non-RTR offerings.

In doing so this will lead the ones who get the "bug" to take their boat out to a race. There is (better said, will be) very competitive RTR hulls available and affordable in the future that will allow a newcomer to feel they can be competitive taking it to a race. That's all they really need, to feel that they can be competitive with a product they bought without breaking their bank.

Factory 40 is the great name. Leave out the "entry" level. Nobody wants to be considered that no matter how new they are to this great hobby!

However, for a Factory 40 class to really get established, it will take getting the hobby shops, manufactures and national organizations involved. Hobby shops and racers near hobby shops can organize a club. Each town with the hobby shop could have a club, which in turn will grow the District and then the sport.

This can be very successful just by following what the airplane clubs do and what the local organized car racing events do that are usually put on by hobby shops.

There are many mid-size cities that have 3, 4 even 5 local flying clubs. Just imagine this with boats, 3 or 4 local city clubs getting together every weekend to "race". Imagine the size of the district races and then the national events!

The boat market falls right in-between aircraft and cars. It is actually the best of both worlds. Boat clubs can be established and what do boat clubs do? Go boating to make their boats go faster against the other club members! This will naturally create "Race clubs"!

If I were a hobby shop owner, I would be in tight with the local flying club for Sunday afternoon flying. Putting on car racing events and for sure establish boat "race clubs" and offer the best RTR's to get newcomers involved.

We have a lot of good things to look forward to in the boat market and it is going to just keep getting better!

Have fun!

Rw

Not sure about the airplane club analogy. Almost every club in my area has a sport or club pylon event similar to what you are proposing for boats, But very few if any of the people participating in those events ever even come out to watch a district pylon race let alone compete. I participate in club racing at three different clubs during the winter to keep the thumbs limber, and have not been succesful in enticing any sport racers out to a district pylon event. Maybe airplane racers are different than boat racers.

Jerry, I think what we have done in the district for the last several years is the best solution. We are down on participation the last couple of years, but I wonder if that is just the normal cycle. Granted there could be more promotion going on.

That being said I am all for anything that can grow the hobby.

Mark

I few thoughts..

A few years ago i sent in a letter to a upper management person of the IMPBA expressing my thoughts on getting new people to the hobby of racing model boats.. I will express a few of those thoughts.

Hobby Shop Support: Very, very important.. its our contact to the outside world.. the internet is great but you can not do a query for what you do not know)

I think a glass or ABS hull that retails for less then $225.00: This is not merely to hold cost down but, it gives boat MFGs a place to get involved as it keeps out the one off builders.

Availability: The boat NEEDS to be available from AT LEAST three distributors. Making the boat hard to get is not the answer. Better tool up if you want to play the game.

MFG support: We need to get MFGs back into the hobby..

Now.. is this a separate class.. NOPE.. i see this as a very important entity to grow the hobby. It likely involves many classers we run now.. Maybe all classes of competition are this way..

Please dont nay say the above.. just take a moment to digest the thoughts. They are there to stimulate thought.

Grimracer

mike,

I totally agree, my only thought on this well here is a senierio.

me and the wallster, we are a two man gang in the des moines area.. we run on a public ( open to anyone ) water.. the problem is having a place to go. settin up times for people to meet with us to run. if people are there fishing they throw a fit..

I know, this is not what everyone has to deal with, but it is for us.. beginners get very frustrated very quick.. i used to be on the lines of,if it is expensive people won't go for it.. but any more, kids parents spend spend spend so i don't think that is as big of a issue as some people think..

Hobby shop support,, huge huge huge, you go into any, and i mean any hobby shop, what do they have...... cars cars cars, oh and planes lol..

no boat parts, no knowledge of boats or the disire to know about them..

does any of this make sence?????

one other follow up, how do you get hobby shops into this sport when it is not readily avaliable to a lake.. that is the hobby shops selling point. they either have a track or can point you in a place to race or play..

chris

Re: hull retails for less than $225

Mike,

Not sure setting a price ceiling would be an encouragement for the major manufacturers. Actually, you specified hull for less than $225 and the cost of a RTR ShockWave 36 is $350. The more manufacturers involved, the better.

The biggest asset I see to a RTR class is the exposure we could gain from the manufacturers' advertising their boats as eligible for a racing class.

The actual RTR racing event might be an 3 minute enduro, or a poker rally, a heat race, the important thing is having an event available for RTR boats.

JD

I did not like having to putt around in the rough water in Atlanta so............

17' Seebold with a K&B SX, reduced pitch prop and a 3' engine set back.

I'm ready for rough water.

Chris Wood said:

one other follow up, how do you get hobby shops into this sport when it is not readily avaliable to a lake..  that is the hobby shops selling point. they either have a track or can point you in a place to race or play..
chris

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Sorry about taking this thread off coarse here.

I'm right there with you Chris. I posted to a general boating thread back in january :blink: ? And stated that was one of my issues with boating. I don't get out often because the "boater's" ponds are an hour-plus to drive to, so I have to make due with what is in the area. It ain't a lot and definately NOT places I would recommend to new boaters (ie.: a river, retention ponds at industrial sights and housing additions...) The local hobby shop is big into cars sponsoring a weekly racing series in their parking lot. And they are tied pretty tight to two airfields.

I feel the priority should be getting boaters in the water. And getting them to the races later. If a club has access to a pond they should take it upon themselves to have a weekly points series with really loose "run what ya got" rules. That way anyone who wants to watch, learn, get involved will know how to find you. Also you have an oppertunity to invite someone new every week (kind of like Church ).

Another area is water access. AMA has a decent advocacy system to help clubs aquire and maintain land access. Sure would be nice if the boating organizations would throw some weight around :angry: .

The local hobby shop isn't going to promote a segment (boating) that isn't going to show a big return. It needs to be easy for the new boater to get wet and have fun. RTR kits are great... but only of there is a place to use it.

Okay, this thread may now resume its originally intended course.

chunk t.

OOOOOOpppsss. Wrong thread! :lol: Sorry Jerry!

After rereading this thread I need to give an opinion on pricing.

The people who want to get into boating know it will take $500+ to get it together. The people who's jaws hit the floor at the mention of $500 for a boat are the people who haven't gotten past the concept of toy.

I know this to be true. I've worked 20+ years in a segment of the sports and recreation industry. (10 in retail and 11 in wholesale).

Price is not the issue you think it is.

Trust me... h34r:

chunk t

I don't think is so much the money ether look at how much parent drop on the play stations or X boxes and the games to go along with it. I think that most of the problem is the place to run. when I got in to this hobby about 10 years ago or so the only place I knew were to buy this stuff was Tower Hobby. none of the hobby shops in the area had much to chose from. they said that they would order but the price was much higher and I had no clue what I was to order and they wont much help ether. Long story short got the boat running went to the local pond meet a group of nice guys (Illini club) helped me out and told me were the best hobby shop around was. this would be (AL's in Elmhurst) the most help I have ever gotten. I was out of the hobby for about 5 years back for a year and a half went from 1 boat that is retired to 2 used boats and 3 new boats this year what a ton of money I just spent hope the wife never finds out or my nutz will be in a jar .

So all I have to say is thanks to everyone in Dist 4 and every one here.

Lets Go Racing

Another area is water access. AMA has a decent advocacy system to help clubs aquire and maintain land access. Sure would be nice if the boating organizations would throw some weight around .

BINGO!!! this is something that should have been done ALONG time ago.. I know there are people on here that are quickly going to say, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE..

well if they don't try, we will be a exstint sport just like the other hobbys that have come and gone.. if a organization such as impba or namba that is as big as it is was to talk with others, people citys what ever the case may be, people may listen.

if we don't try, we won't need new people in our sport because there won't be a place to run anyway..

Here is one other thing, since i am on the soap box... This thing with NOISE.. again, people on here will differ.. but i don't feel it is as big a deal as they let on.

let me ask ya this... you go down a street, in any town of any substancial size, on a thur, fri sat whatever it is.. you hear noisy lawn mowers, kids with the booming stereo's, what is that, i now about the stereo, sat in a car one time that hit 146 db!! and people complain about a boat that hits 95 LOL!!!

it is all in public view, what people percieve is O.K. and what is not O.K.

If people new of our hobby, like they no of other things it wouldn't be a big deal

so i guess the big question is WHAT DO WE DO, it only takes one person to start it..

This is a good topic. and i think we can all get something together from this...

just my thoughts

chris

jerry, sorry to get this topic way off course..

just would like to come up with a solution, after all if we didn't love doing this, we wouldn't sit here reading this all the time....

chris

Jerry Dunlap said:

Re:  hull retails for less than $225
Mike,

Not sure setting a price ceiling would be an encouragement for the major manufacturers.   Actually, you specified hull for less than $225 and the cost of a RTR ShockWave 36 is $350.  The more manufacturers involved, the better.

The biggest asset I see to a RTR class is the exposure we could gain from the manufacturers' advertising their boats as eligible for a racing class. 

The actual RTR racing event might be an 3 minute enduro, or a poker rally, a heat race, the important thing is having an event available for RTR boats. 

JD

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JD.. my thoughts at the time were towards hull pricing only. i can see the value of a RTR. Your right.. and i think so is Russ.

Sell a boat that allows upgrades. Tout it as a race boat, and, with the addition of hop up parts....it gets even better.

The shock wave might just be the boat to do the job..

Not to forget the way it is now if Power Surge Racing Products would decide to jump on this market… with the background we have and the resources we have (being in the racing loop) would an open price be the right thing to do. Sell to anybody through any means? I cant imagine its going to grow the hobby? Maybe.. I dunno..

I dont know.. price might not be an issue.. I have raced for years and when it comes to winning people will spend what it takes.. When they are allowed to.

I raced (I will go back to this again) Box Stock 15 slot cars.. A $20 chassis… at the time no EDM chassis allowed.. What a pleasuer to race.. Still the most expensive racing I have ever done but not bad as far as Group-27 or Open.. With this I was able to place 7th at the 1996 nats.. All the top cars in Box 15.. yup.. $20.00 chassis. Big fun..

The saving grace for slots were the rules that were established after the fall of Slot cars in the 70s. Track owners re-grouped and now.. don’t kid your selfs.. slot car racing is very strong..

Track time is never free.

Retail means the price you pay

And

All slot parts MUST be available from three distributors.

O yea… We ran a hobby shop/raceway for 10 years with great success.

RIP. Steveareano..

ROCK ON

Grim

ah yes mike i remember those days,, now they have edm chassis in box stock. i run box stock and international 15 wow hold on 200 a motor 200 for a aluminum chassis and you havn't even hit the track lol!!!

i wish there was a solution to the problem.. like you said, buy a boat and have hop up parts.. the only draw back is manufacturing participation....

chris

you might want to add something about the boat remaining stock, none of this stock appearing stuff. As soon as people start sending the motors out to be modded you lose the beginners and blow the low price benefit.

DJT said:

you might want to add something about the boat remaining stock, none of this stock appearing stuff. As soon as people start sending the motors out to be modded you lose the beginners and blow the low price benefit.

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Good point DJT but "stock" can easily be controlled. "Factory 40" class is just that, stock from the factory, no mods. Run what you bring as long as it is under a .40 and factory stock. I think this class could be very good to grow participation.

Engines can easily be inspected. That is what is currently done in car/truck R/C racing. Very seldom will one bend the rules as the top engines (not only the ones that win, but the the ones that appear to be going a lot faster than the others) are torn down and inspected. Once this is done a few times ard people are caught, it sends a message.

I think the future is very bright for the boat market. It has been neglated by most of the industry but times are changing

Have fun!

Rw