FE P-Limited Rules NAMBA and IMPBA and best choices!

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RonShaw

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Apr 13, 2011
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I am currently refitting a LYNX I have that has a faulty ESC and motor. I was thinking about making it legal for both organizations with the best engine/esc selection from the FE experts, but with the recent one year test on a IMPBA rule change, that may not be possible now. I would appreciate input from some of you FE guys (Gabe, Darin, Mic, Chilli, Don, others) on best selections for the current IMPBA and NAMBA rules, to see if there is a common ground. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
BTW, I should have clarified this is for P-Limited Tunnel and Hydro. Thanks.
 
Thanks Robert. I mentioned him above as well. I have had other boaters ask me as well so I figured we would get it posted here to help everyone out.
 
Is there a trial for P-Limited in IMPBA this year? If so, I missed that one. Which Roostertail would the trial rule be outlined in?

Thanks in advance!
 
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I thought the trial was using any ESC, but still limited on 4S and a certain motor. That could have been last year and implemented now. Maybe is was a regional or district rule. Again, I am new and looking for the most accurate and the most desirable competitive P-Limited FE info for IMPBA and NAMBA.
 
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Hi Ron,

The IMPBA doesn't have official P Limited classes.

You're probably thinking of D13. The district FE Director and a committee lifted the esc restrictions and adopted NAMBAs complete motor list starting this year. I have lost track of what D12 is doing.

There are some discussions going on in NAMBA about a motor rule change. I'm sure the guys will post over here as things move forward.

I'm pretty confident that we (D13) will follow suit so we can continue to enjoy racing our NAMBA friends.

Doug
 
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Doug,

Ok, I appreciate the clarification on the class for IMPBA. I guess since my D12 District runs the class, I thought it was an official IMPBA class. I guess we have adopted the same rules as D13. Thank you for chiming in. Maybe since NAMBA is considering changes, is the reason I have heard changes may be coming for us as well. Quick question, have the P-limited classes been officially proposed to IMPBA? It would be simple as all we would need to do to add the classes would be to match NAMBA?
 
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"Quick question, have the P-limited classes been officially proposed to IMPBA?"

Yes sir. And I hope it never comes up again.
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"Quick question, have the P-limited classes been officially proposed to IMPBA?"

Yes sir. And I hope it never comes up again.
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Oh no. Sounds like it did not go very well..LOL. It would be simple to just adopt the same rules as NAMBA. That would make it easy for everyone.
 
Sorry Doug it seems to have surfaced again.

After 6 years od FE learning and watching all the drama (me included) FE racing is not taking root nationally like gas or nitro has. Shame cause "Spec" and above, P & Q offer some real performance for the money. That said the best IMPBA program going is Dist 12-13. They have a real reliable schedule for FE boaters. Arguably because of their rules and moreover some very dedicated FE members. NAMBA seems to be working with similar motor rules.

As for motors the FE powers to be seem to align with RTR manufacturers. Why I am not sure. You tie yourself to availability from one or two sources and give no incentive to lower prices. But it seems to give some order for a new prospect to feel he can compete. From my viewpoint a simple inrunner with limitations of 36mm X 60mm max diameter and length would give racers many options and if it comes down to one or two dominant motors so be it. Right now your pretty much going with an $80 AQ 2030 to be competitive. So if a $60 36X60 Generic betters it what's the big deal? If your concerned with "exotic big$" motors make a $100 claiming rule and keep the class at a sport level. (no US-1 or records) Simple measurable motor that is easily officiated. If it fits the box it's legal. On the ESC side make a $100 claiming rule if you honestly feel something like a $300 MGM is a race advantage over a $60-$80 ESC. Maybe for records but not so much heat racing. Reliability yes, performance gain marginal if any.

There you have it, keep it simple affordable and easily enforceable. Having some sort of national rule for IMPBA would be nice. And might expand FE into regular races like D12-13 has.

Mic
 
Doug, how about staring over with "QSS" (superstock) Sport class with 40X82mm box limits. 6S single motor.

Mic
 
Thanks Mic. That helps a lot. I am hoping Don Ferrette will chime in as well. No better time than now to re-approach this and get the class finalized within the IMPBA. I agree that D13 and D12 seem to be the leaders within IMPBA on these classes and proposal and having "stock" FE recognized classes I think will help grow FE within our other IMPBA districts as well. Can you help clarify the following from your point of view. I am hoping some others will follow suit, as well as other NAMBA boaters as well.

P-Limited Outboard Tunnel on 4S

Preferred motor:

Preferred ESC:

P-Limited Hydro on 4S

Preferred motor:

Preferred ESC:

Thanks again.
 
If you look on the Capitol rc model boat club website all the p class rules are posted .chilli did a really good job with the web page
 
Thanks Michael. Here is the info from the Capital RCMB Club website. This is a great starting point. Thanks Chilli!!!

9. FE P-Limited Rules:
A. Motor Specifications
The intent of the P-Limited Motor Specifications is to define motors to be used in Limited class racing. Motors in these specifications shall be based on readily available parts from past, current, and/or future Ready-to-Run offerings by various manufacturers. Only motors on the approved motor list shall be allowed. Motors are intended to be used as they are supplied. Therefore, no alterations or modifications are allowed, unless specifically stated in these rules. Motor shall be directly connected to the output drive shaft, no gear/belt over/under drives will be allowed.
B. Approved Motors:
The motors approved for P-Limited racing are:
ProBoat - PBR3310 A3630-1500 4 pole brushless motor (BJ26, Formula FastTech, Miss Elam FE)
AquaCraft - AQUG7000 L36/56 7.2-18V 6 pole brushless motor (SV27),
AQUG7001 36-56-2030 6 pole brushless motor (UL-1 Superior)
C. Cooling:

Motors and ESCs may be cooled as desired. Water jackets, cooling plates, electronic fans, etc., may be added as desired, so long as they don't perform an otherwise illegal function.
D. Contacts and Wiring:

Originally supplied contacts may be replaced. Wire length on the power and phase leads may be altered to facilitate installation. If lengthening the original wires, additional wire may be added to the factory supplied wires. If shortening the original wires, the final contact to the Motor or ESC must be made using the original wiring. The intent of this rule is to prevent the removal and replacement of the original wiring in its entirety, by requiring that the final contact to the Motor or ESC be made by the original wiring.
E. Capacitors:
Extra Capacitors may be used to protect the speed controller from ripple current.
F. Battery: Voltage limits and battery specifications will be in accordance with the P class located in the IMPBA rule book, Section J.

G. Hull:

Length restrictions shall be in accordance with the P Classes in the IMPBA rule book.
 
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To my knowledge the AQ 2030 36X56 motor seems to be the dominant power. NAMBA or IMPBA. I believe some of the D-4 guys deviated with a cheaper local motor and maybe they can chime in. Seems the quality and price of the AQ was the driving force here so nice to get their input.

Mic
 
My club has been running the P spec classes for years. The UL-1 class evolved into a 1/12 scale sport hydro class that runs converted Proboat, Miss Vegas, and home built hulls as well as the UL-1. 3.5 tunnels run well with P spec power and approach 3.5 mod tunnel speeds. The P spec riggers (Zip Kit and Raptor) are a lot of fun. The 1/10 scale classes are also popular with lower KV motors. Props and setup are critical because the power available is very equal. It encourages a lot of testing and experimentation.

The UL-1 motor is standard except for 1/10 scale with the Turnigy 120 Marine (or equal) ESC. I have recorded up to 120 amp draw with the motor as the weak link. The standard, safe starting prop for the UL-1 motor is the Grim Racer 42x55.

Attached are some pictures from several years ago with my XTR-21 against Brian Buass' Topspeed. Below is a picture of my latest P spec tunnel. The front of the center section was stolen from a battered Topspeed, but it is wider and longer with high angle sponson bottoms.

Lohring Miller

For some reason I can't post more than thumbnail size pictures.
 
Ron,

Mr. Smock helped me come up with the initial FE and P-Limited rules for D12. And to tell you the truth, much of the P-Limited content was based on rules from a NAMBA club in Florida that were used at the World Tunnel Championships about eight years ago. As mentioned, lot's of drama comes up every time someone suggest we come up with a nation class in the IMPBA or when rule changes are discussed among the NAMBA folks. Do we use spec ESC's... do we not... whats the protocol for allowing more motor choices... how do we tech motors at race? IMHO, These discussions were causing more harm than good for the hobby and until we see an FE National event in the IMPBA or more FE's at IMPBA National Races, I don't see a need for a National P-Limited class.

NAMBA's rules seem to work pretty well for their members, D13's rules have been working fine for them and our rules, though evolving have kept most everyone happy.

In D12, we run FE and NItro combined so we have other issues to consider. In the end, we've remained flexible in keeping up with changes FE district members have requested over the last couple of years while always taking into account the concerns of nitro racers. Members wanted the flexibility of open ESC's two years ago so we allowed it. We started out running P-limited classes in Hydro, Sport Hydro (Sport 20 size boats) and Tunnel but last year more guys wanted to run full P power after cutting their teeth on P-Limited for their first couple of years so we swapped out P-Limited Hydro with P Hydro. As Mike F mentioned, the Sport 20's and B-Tunnels run pretty well with the P-limited classes so we left those classes alone. That's not to say the FE boats don't have some advantages over the nitro boats because they do.

I used the Aquacraft 2030 in both P-Limited and P Hydro with great success. The H7 worked with with the JAE.

See you in Smithfield
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