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Monos built strickly for SAW?


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#31 Guest_hugh hargett_*

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:30 PM


The IMPBA stepped mono rule needs to be changed to reflect the technological advances in real racing mono design.

No need to change the rules. The mono rules we have now are simple and still somewhat vague. We don't need to complicate them any more.

Our 39" microBurst has a solid 1" X 1" square aluminum block on the transom to extend the strut back. This is not a lot different the the first boat in Christian pics. So is the back of my square block now the transom and the original transom is now a step?


Yeah but they dont allow steps Andy, thats caveman. Alot of the new modern monos have steps, no need to stay in the dark ages simply to prevent complication. Honestly I never understood complicated in that sense. They have rules we just follow them. If we are constanly looking for grey areas why have rules at all? No matter, to not allow stepped monos in the mono class is backwards. Making them compete with hydros is really backwards. If were to be representative of the real boats, which is whats implied by the need to have sponsor logos, numbers, and drivers, then why not be totally accurate and allow stepped monos?I like new stuff.

JMO

Hugh



#32 Rickard Andersson

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:42 PM

Not made for saw but this summer I have tryed to air the hull to reduce drag, this was made on a hull with heatracing setup. In calm water there is a gain but in real rough water it's hard to say if it doing any good. Key to success was that no bad habbits came out of it!

Link to pics on two diffrent hull bottoms.

http://www.intlwater...lery&user=12926

My gameplan was to be able to use a bit more wet setup with same or less drag then before. Lap record on the first race, not that bad!

Rickard



#33 Tom Foley

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

3 - D DEMON MONO
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#34 Andy Greene

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

3 - D DEMON MONO
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Two words- (well 4)
RIDE PAD- MOD VP !!!!!!

GET THE GLASS OUT BIOTCH , That thing would be a cool azz ModVP ;)

BTW-Windex would have a heart attack in your shop :D :D :D :D

#35 Tom Foley

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

It's a 40 boat that I thought a 91 VAC would add some excitement to.

#36 dwilfong

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

It's a 40 boat that I thought a 91 VAC would add some excitement to.

YA BABY NOW YOU ARE TALKING!!!!!!!!

#37 David Bryant

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:05 PM

the boat pictured is a Mirage. The mono hull was manufactured by Power Products in the 80's. Howard Power used to write a boating column RCM magazine

I remember the Mirage, Howard's ran very fast back then. I used to get a lot of items from Howard (Power Products), as well as much great info from his R/C Modeler Magazine column. Wish he was still around running boats.

I would kill to have an original (new) Northwind 40/60 kit. What ever became of Ed Fisher? I can remember (as a young teenager) Jean Adams, from Los Angeles, would run his Northwind 20 powered by a Super Tigre X-15, it was lightning fast, much faster than most of the 20/40-sized powered mono's of that time. The Northwind had a very wide and shallow transom/length ratio, gave the illusion much like a "kite".

Funny, at that time the A-Mono class (which eventually became .21ci) was dominated by .19ci engines (converted to marine use). At that time the most popular .20 (or "A") class motor was the Veco .19 (with an Octura "Kool Klamp").

#38 RaceMechaniX

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

Tom Hammer has built I believe 14 iterations of his infamous TomCat mono. I know he uses them for both SAW and 2-lap, but they really seem to be intended for SAW. Very unique boats but incredibly difficult to get running straight. Of the few pases Tom has made the boat did airout nicely and shows the potential. I am not sure how secret Tom is about his designs so I won't divulge any details, but if you come out to the Legg Lake SAW's he is happy to chat.

Here is a pic of Tom at one of the SAW event's. Attached File  DSCN6900.JPG   152.19KB   112 downloads

#39 Guest_lohring_*

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:37 PM

I gave my very vintage Northwind to Darren Jordan. If you contact him he might not need it anymore.

Lohring Miller

#40 Terry Keeley

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:18 AM

From Gil's album, "Jerry Dunlap s Northwinds (1974)"




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#41 John Finch

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:37 AM


Hi Andy,

i suck all infos about Ed out from RC-Modeller when i was young .If someone will ever meet him ,tell him that there are a group of modelboaters in Germany they build all his boats .

I build my version of the Northwind ,doing some test run with different drives .Twin engine ,counterrotating props and singelmotor singelprop .

On a Japan website i found years ago some monos that fit as a SAW monohull .But i think they run the boats on open see salt water ,control the boat driving semselv in a daycruiser side by side over long distance.


Christian, I wonder if someone would consider your first boat pictured illegal (for IMPBA, NAMBA) because of the hull extension rearward of the transom? Or is the hull extension merely a glorified long strut bracket which is commonly used on monos. Some might say it is a very short two point hydroplane or stepped mono, but does not the very long extended strut bracket create the same type of effects in the running hull?

Just started reading this so I need to catch up. As mono director for IMPBA I would rule it illegal. bacically a mono for IMPBA must be one continuous wetted surface with no breaks. I respect what Doug said about the transom extension not being in the water at full speed, but that would eventually be tested to the point you would have people using extensions and saying they dont touch at full speed. Non of these trick items such as wings and steps will help for SAW record runs. Simple is best. Fly the hull.

John

#42 John Finch

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:45 AM



The IMPBA stepped mono rule needs to be changed to reflect the technological advances in real racing mono design.

No need to change the rules. The mono rules we have now are simple and still somewhat vague. We don't need to complicate them any more.

Our 39" microBurst has a solid 1" X 1" square aluminum block on the transom to extend the strut back. This is not a lot different the the first boat in Christian pics. So is the back of my square block now the transom and the original transom is now a step?


Yeah but they dont allow steps Andy, thats caveman. Alot of the new modern monos have steps, no need to stay in the dark ages simply to prevent complication. Honestly I never understood complicated in that sense. They have rules we just follow them. If we are constanly looking for grey areas why have rules at all? No matter, to not allow stepped monos in the mono class is backwards. Making them compete with hydros is really backwards. If were to be representative of the real boats, which is whats implied by the need to have sponsor logos, numbers, and drivers, then why not be totally accurate and allow stepped monos?I like new stuff.

JMO

Hugh

If you put steps on a mono it runs in the hydro class. I have done that. I put two steps in a deep vee and ran it at the winter nats one year. Fred Mc Broom came to my tent after I raced it in a hydro heat and he said that boat just ran in a hydro heat, thinking I screwed up. I showed him the bottom, he shook his head, and slowly walked away. I then went to Indy and Got 7th place with it at the indy unlimited running against over 100 boats in the same class. Mostly hydros. Could have been in the top 3 if someone had not turned on their radio on my frequency on my last heat that I was winning. I got some lucky heats but mono hulls are usually a lot slower that the riggers so they would typically just get in the way. Would you want guys with Mono hulls racing in the hydro class? I think not. That is the point I was trying to make at the time. I tried to change some of the rules many many years ago. One of the changes I did get through was being able to use a flat bottom strut. I had to convince the board that a flat bottom strut would not give the mono an advantage, just allow the youngblood boats and tidewater hardware to be legal.
You have to look at what constitutes a hydro to keep the classes separate. Hydros started out as single step mono hulls. That was what made the two classes different. Like Andy said......if you design a mono correctly it does not need wings or steps. In fact wings cause drag and slow you down. Like someone said......look at Jerry Crowthers boat at 98 mph. The boat does not need wings or steps because the boat is flying above the water. Simple is best.

#43 Terry Keeley

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:21 AM



#44 Christian Lucas

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:47 AM

Hi Andy,
have only found one pic of the North Wind at speed .This show a electric driven boat from an English unknowen Gentelman.

Next is the Vuelo duration raceboat driven and produced by Nic Rees England .Normaly it is driven with submerged prop ,i konvert it to surfacdrive and ad a step in front (don`'t know does it need it or not).The boat won some World Champion titel in Naviga under 2 kg class .It was fast and turn hard ,very stable .

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#45 John Finch

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:12 AM

draw views...

Guy,
Pretty close, but your drawing would be illegal in IMPBA with the step just before the flat spot. My boat did not have a flat ride surface. I actually had two hulls. The first was a true deep vee all the way to the keel. The second one had a 10 degree vee at the keel. I used flat pads on my sightler boats and on some twincrafts but the flat pad is sort of like skipping a rock across the water with no control. I prefer a bit of vee to the keel for control. The distance of the prop to the transom is key in getting the boat to air out as is the rudder location for both ride angle and roll stability. Tune the boat with those two elements and you are on the way to getting to SAW record speeds. No tricks on the hull, just weight vs lift.