RTR class(es)

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piper_chuck

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
2,436
There are quite a few discussions about how to incorporate RTR boats into organized racing. It's obvious that quite a few of them are being sold, but few ever run at the traditional club or district races. Some clubs are encouraging participation from people with RTR boats, while others aren't. In the interest of collecting some information, I'm starting this thread to open up some discussions. Here are a few questions and thoughts to get things rolling.

Does your club have a regularly run RTR class? If so, what rules do you use?

One of the big attractions of an RTR class is low cost and simplicity. An RTR class will quickly lose its appeal if someone starts winning all the races with a $500 engine and $250 worth of replacement parts. What is/should be done to keep costs down?

What parts should be fair game for replacing versus those that are off limits (engine, rudder, pipe, props, pipe couplers, glow plugs, turn fins, trim tabs, etc)?

Should all RTR boats be lumped together or should there be some classes based on engine size, hull type, etc?

Should there be an official IMPBA RTR class(es), or should there just be a set of sample rules that clubs can use?

If IMPBA doesn't have an organization wide set of rules, or at least some guidelines, it's very possible that neighboring clubs will implement different rules. If this happens, how do we address people wanting to visit other sites? Is this even a problem or is it likely that people running RTR boats won't want to travel?
 
Thank you Chuck, sounds like a good topic to get new club members wet in the hobby of r/c boat racing. Iam currently not a member of any clubs but will be for the next season and from the races I have watched at thet was some of the talk.( how to get new membership ?) I also noticed that some boats ( miss Llumar ) were also given away in a drawing of sorts and there are not any classes for racing them yet so it would be nice to see a class in the future. I hope others put in their $.02 because it is for the good of all r/c boating to get the public interested and participateing.

Just my $.02 worth John Maki :D
 
Maybe there should be a RTR class that is basically stock boats and an under .21 class that you can run the RTR's with mods or other small home builts.
 
For those clubs that don't offer the "A" class, possibly there could be thrown in but right now let's concentrate on the ones currently on the market that are in the .15-.18 range. There could be "Box Stock" with the exception of a better radio system and metal props in the interest of safety and a broader choice of frequencies.
 
For those clubs that don't offer the "A" class, possibly there could be thrown in but right now let's concentrate on the ones currently on the market that are in the .15-.18 range. There could be "Box Stock" with the exception of a better radio system and metal props in the interest of safety and a broader choice of frequencies.

Agree with you Ron, personally I think it should be box stock with the only changes being the radio gear and prop selection. No other mods.

This would only add one more class (and hopefully a bunch more new boaters).

My feeling is the RTR should be used to get boater in at a small investment.

And clubs as a whole should not add MOD classes of RTRs as this would keep all racing with the same set of RTR rules. Once the boater has been introduced to model boat racing and they get the bug then they have the opportunity to move up to other classes. Of course this by no way implies that the RTR boater has to be a newbie

Steve
 
For those clubs that don't offer the "A" class, possibly there could be thrown in but right now let's concentrate on the ones currently on the market that are in the .15-.18 range. There could be "Box Stock" with the exception of a better radio system and metal props in the interest of safety and a broader choice of frequencies.
I agree Ron and I also say don't divide them up into mono and hydro classes unless you have a bunch of them. After all the main point of it is, I think, To get new drivers used to getting on the clock, driving on the course, and driving in traffic. If after a while you get alot of RTR's you can divide into Mono, Hydro, Mod, etc.
 
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Here's my take on this after driving a Miss Vegas this past weekend & the thought of creating a class for it. The boat is fun right out of the box & in the interest of new people joining & not getting run off from no chance of winning it should be very limited what you can do-

Boat must run the STOCK engine & pipe, period. This is THE single most important rule as if you allow "upgrades" here you will open the the door to big buck car motor conversions. If someone wants to run a hot .18 or .21 then you move up to sport 21.

Alterations to paint & graphics are permitted as well as cosmetic changes to top side surfaces in the interest of making boat visually different (i.e. reshaping the scoop to look like a different unlimited). Absolutely NO alterations allowed to the running surfaces other than sanding and/or polishing.

Metal prop upgrade to a x435 or Y535 is permitted. Upgraded turn fin is permitted. The racer may use pull start or a starter belt.

I am going to repaint (no surprise here) my Miss Vegas as a different unlimited, add the upgrade Aquacraft turn fin & a metal prop & that is it. It is absolutely imperative to not let this class get bastardized by allowing a bunch of mods & motor changes. The idea is to keep it cheap for all to be competitive. Once a racer feels the need for more then sport 21 or a 21 nitro class is where you will have to move up to. At the race this past weekend they ran stock gas class, stone stock Zenoahs kept everything fun to race & watch as the boats were so equal, that is what needs to happen here as well. ;)
 
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I think you're right Don... The A hydro thing hasn't picked up,.. maybe this will

Here's my take on this after driving a Miss Vegas this past weekend & the thought of creating a class for it. The boat is fun right out of the box & in the interest of new people joining & not getting run off from no chance of winning it should be very limited what you can do-

Boat must run the STOCK engine & pipe, period. This is THE single most important rule as if you allow "upgrades" here you will open the the door to big buck car motor conversions. If someone wants to run a hot .18 or .21 then you move up to sport 21.

Alterations to paint & graphics are permitted as well as cosmetic changes to top side surfaces in the interest of making boat visually different (i.e. reshaping the scoop to look like a different unlimited). Absolutely NO alterations allowed to the running surfaces other than sanding and/or polishing.

Metal prop upgrade to a x435 or Y535 is permitted. Upgraded turn fin is permitted. The racer may use pull start or a starter belt.

I am going to repaint (no surprise here) my Miss Vegas as a different unlimited, add the upgrade Aquacraft turn fin & a metal prop & that is it. It is absolutely imperative to not let this class get bastardized by allowing a bunch of mods & motor changes. The idea is to keep it cheap for all to be competitive. Once a racer feels the need for more then sport 21 or a 21 nitro class is where you will have to move up to. At the race this past weekend they ran stock gas class, stone stock Zenoahs kept everything fun to race & watch as the boats were so equal, that is what needs to happen here as well. ;)
 
Here's my take on this after driving a Miss Vegas this past weekend & the thought of creating a class for it. The boat is fun right out of the box & in the interest of new people joining & not getting run off from no chance of winning it should be very limited what you can do-

Boat must run the STOCK engine & pipe, period. This is THE single most important rule as if you allow "upgrades" here you will open the the door to big buck car motor conversions. If someone wants to run a hot .18 or .21 then you move up to sport 21.

Alterations to paint & graphics are permitted as well as cosmetic changes to top side surfaces in the interest of making boat visually different (i.e. reshaping the scoop to look like a different unlimited). Absolutely NO alterations allowed to the running surfaces other than sanding and/or polishing.
How about things like removing the wing?

Metal prop upgrade to a x435 or Y535 is permitted. Upgraded turn fin is permitted. The racer may use pull start or a starter belt.
Do we need to list specific props, or just note that prop changes are permitted. On the starter question, we should include the tiger drive for other boats.

I am going to repaint (no surprise here) my Miss Vegas as a different unlimited, add the upgrade Aquacraft turn fin & a metal prop & that is it. It is absolutely imperative to not let this class get bastardized by allowing a bunch of mods & motor changes.
There's a contradiction here that needs resolving. Some are saying box stock and others are saying limited mods. For example, it's pretty widely accepted that the turn fin on the Vegas is less than adequate. I assume that's why you're saying you would change it in the one you are thinking of buying. How do we draw the line on what can and can't be changed? Do we have a panel that approves boat specific changes in the interest of handling and safety? What if I keep the original Vegas turn fin, but tweak it to improve handling? Is that allowed? Can I sharpen and shorten the rudder?

The idea is to keep it cheap for all to be competitive. Once a racer feels the need for more then sport 21 or a 21 nitro class is where you will have to move up to. At the race this past weekend they ran stock gas class, stone stock Zenoahs kept everything fun to race & watch as the boats were so equal, that is what needs to happen here as well. ;)
Agreed, it needs to be kept simple and inexpensive.

Once the boater has been introduced to model boat racing and they get the bug then they have the opportunity to move up to other classes. Of course this by no way implies that the RTR boater has to be a newbie
Hmmm, I'm curious about this requirement. Why not let experienced drivers join the fun? This could actually help since it can maintain the class between periods when there are no new people. It also would help the beginners learn to drive with people who have a better handle on what should be done on the course.
 
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Box stock makes for fun and competitive racing. We have now ran three races here in D 13 using the Mod-VP boats with box stock engines. Thing is it is a controlled class right now because I am bringing the boats. Once the class runs on its own all it takes is for someone to tweak a special prop for it and there is the difference. Thats racing! Let me tell you, it is very hard to get 5 identical boats and motors running not only the same speed but also run the same way! I think it is a great idea especially for biginners. You can pull your hair out trying to come up with boats that are ultra competitive. :lol:
 
So far there's a strong box stock sentiment, cool.

Let me throw something else into the mix. What about running with the same fuel, perhaps club provided, so that's not a factor?
 
Good point Chuck. As a matter of fact this past weekend in Atlanta I ran all the boats on 40 percent fuel instead of 50. It did not hurt the performance at all, so this proves that just throwing nitro at them does not always mean more speed. Less nitro means less cost for a RTR class too.
 
For those clubs that don't offer the "A" class, possibly there could be thrown in but right now let's concentrate on the ones currently on the market that are in the .15-.18 range. There could be "Box Stock" with the exception of a better radio system and metal props in the interest of safety and a broader choice of frequencies.

Agree with you Ron, personally I think it should be box stock with the only changes being the radio gear and prop selection. No other mods.

This would only add one more class (and hopefully a bunch more new boaters).

My feeling is the RTR should be used to get boater in at a small investment.

And clubs as a whole should not add MOD classes of RTRs as this would keep all racing with the same set of RTR rules. Once the boater has been introduced to model boat racing and they get the bug then they have the opportunity to move up to other classes. Of course this by no way implies that the RTR boater has to be a newbie

Steve

I fully agree with Steve,

otherwise making new classes where will it all end up with maybe more and more Rtr boats???

Ronald.
 
Here's my take on this after driving a Miss Vegas this past weekend & the thought of creating a class for it. The boat is fun right out of the box & in the interest of new people joining & not getting run off from no chance of winning it should be very limited what you can do-

Boat must run the STOCK engine & pipe, period. This is THE single most important rule as if you allow "upgrades" here you will open the the door to big buck car motor conversions. If someone wants to run a hot .18 or .21 then you move up to sport 21.

Alterations to paint & graphics are permitted as well as cosmetic changes to top side surfaces in the interest of making boat visually different (i.e. reshaping the scoop to look like a different unlimited). Absolutely NO alterations allowed to the running surfaces other than sanding and/or polishing.

Metal prop upgrade to a x435 or Y535 is permitted. Upgraded turn fin is permitted. The racer may use pull start or a starter belt.

I am going to repaint (no surprise here) my Miss Vegas as a different unlimited, add the upgrade Aquacraft turn fin & a metal prop & that is it. It is absolutely imperative to not let this class get bastardized by allowing a bunch of mods & motor changes. The idea is to keep it cheap for all to be competitive. Once a racer feels the need for more then sport 21 or a 21 nitro class is where you will have to move up to. At the race this past weekend they ran stock gas class, stone stock Zenoahs kept everything fun to race & watch as the boats were so equal, that is what needs to happen here as well. ;)




too bad the stock pipe is over the 92 db limit!
 
Here's my take on this after driving a Miss Vegas this past weekend & the thought of creating a class for it. The boat is fun right out of the box & in the interest of new people joining & not getting run off from no chance of winning it should be very limited what you can do-

Boat must run the STOCK engine & pipe, period. This is THE single most important rule as if you allow "upgrades" here you will open the the door to big buck car motor conversions. If someone wants to run a hot .18 or .21 then you move up to sport 21.

Alterations to paint & graphics are permitted as well as cosmetic changes to top side surfaces in the interest of making boat visually different (i.e. reshaping the scoop to look like a different unlimited). Absolutely NO alterations allowed to the running surfaces other than sanding and/or polishing.
How about things like removing the wing?

Metal prop upgrade to a x435 or Y535 is permitted. Upgraded turn fin is permitted. The racer may use pull start or a starter belt.
Do we need to list specific props, or just note that prop changes are permitted. On the starter question, we should include the tiger drive for other boats.

I am going to repaint (no surprise here) my Miss Vegas as a different unlimited, add the upgrade Aquacraft turn fin & a metal prop & that is it. It is absolutely imperative to not let this class get bastardized by allowing a bunch of mods & motor changes.
There's a contradiction here that needs resolving. Some are saying box stock and others are saying limited mods. For example, it's pretty widely accepted that the turn fin on the Vegas is less than adequate. I assume that's why you're saying you would change it in the one you are thinking of buying. How do we draw the line on what can and can't be changed? Do we have a panel that approves boat specific changes in the interest of handling and safety? What if I keep the original Vegas turn fin, but tweak it to improve handling? Is that allowed? Can I sharpen and shorten the rudder?

The idea is to keep it cheap for all to be competitive. Once a racer feels the need for more then sport 21 or a 21 nitro class is where you will have to move up to. At the race this past weekend they ran stock gas class, stone stock Zenoahs kept everything fun to race & watch as the boats were so equal, that is what needs to happen here as well. ;)
Agreed, it needs to be kept simple and inexpensive.

Once the boater has been introduced to model boat racing and they get the bug then they have the opportunity to move up to other classes. Of course this by no way implies that the RTR boater has to be a newbie
Hmmm, I'm curious about this requirement. Why not let experienced drivers join the fun? This could actually help since it can maintain the class between periods when there are no new people. It also would help the beginners learn to drive with people who have a better handle on what should be done on the course.
Chuck,

Please read it again! :rolleyes:
 
too bad the stock pipe is over the 92 db limit!
Steve-

The one we took turns running at open water last Friday sure didn't sound loud to me. We all were having so much fun running the boat (it will jump a gas mono wake quite well) that no one ever thought about putting a meter on it. I will say this it was quieter than some of the gas boats that were out there that we've metered (that passed) at other races. I am glad you mentioned it though as I will meter the one I'm getting when I run it. I think we all know we had some "issues" with accurate readings & I just got my meter back from being calibrated (was off by less than .1 dB) so I'll see what we get. B)
 
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pass after pass.. we get 89..

Let us know your results Don.

Steve.. the over 92 DB that Mr, Bullhard reported in his dist 5 report is hearsay.. or at least we were never TOLD THE BOATS WERE OVER BY ANYBODY " AT THE RACE " ...

Take care man

Grimracer
 
pass after pass.. we get 89..

Let us know your results Don.

Steve.. the over 92 DB that Mr, Bullhard reported in his dist 5 report is hearsay.. or at least we were never TOLD THE BOATS WERE OVER BY ANYBODY " AT THE RACE " ...

Take care man

Grimracer
don't sweat it mike, lol you know dad on this db subject just like myself lol..

they are fun to run i must say.. not lighting quick but real competitive if they run against other boats of the same motor and size...

how do they run compaired to the bud boats.. anyone know??

( should have to jerry crowther out when i had the chance lol )

chris
 
This is just a additonal thought about the rtr boats.

maybe mike z can chime in.

What about the manufacture offering a boat that is just painted a certain base coat.. no decals of sorts.. that way they can do want to it to seperate them from others.. so they don't confuse them with other boats of the same design sceam??

if the impba made a class what would you call it?? sport .15 or sport .18??

chris
 
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