Pay n Pack with gold, not orange

GraysonTaylor · Aug 13, 2017

I've seen a picture of an early 70's Pay n Pack with gold striping. Anyone know about this? The picture on my dumas box looks like the U-1 is in gold with the rest in orange. The local graphics guy pointed out that the U-1 on the dumas box did not have the serif on the font while the template on the plans did. Just curious if anyone has info on this.
Thanks for the help.

Hydro Junkie · Aug 13, 2017

What's a serif?

Okay, let's set the record straight. The 7325 Pak, shown on the attached box top, has the correct paint job, other than the U-1 on the wing which was rather sloppily replaced with U-1, for the beginning of the 1973 Unlimited Hydroplane season. The orange was also darkened on the box top picture, as can be seen when comparing it to the un-redone picture below and the paint job shown in this attached video, starting at the 48 second mark of the video:

One thing to be aware of, the Pak is shown in the video with an engine cover but, in fact, only ran with the engine cover during testing and at two races, one of which was the 1973 Gold Cup, per crew chief Jim Lucero. Both times the engine cover was on the boat at a race, the boat failed to finish the event.

GraysonTaylor · Aug 14, 2017

Cool footage. This is a screen shot from Google but I have no clue about the picture or which number it is.

GraysonTaylor · Aug 14, 2017

The little flat lines attached to the top or bottom os a letter. Check out the U in both shots.

Hydro Junkie · Aug 14, 2017

If you're referring to the number I listed, that was the APBA hull number. It identifies a boat as follows:

first two digits are the year the boat first ran, 1973 in this case

the remaining digits are the "U" number on the boat, in this case U-25

Okay, with all that said, there are four pictures of the boat in that screen shot:

Left column second picture shows the Pak racing the 7025 Miss Budweiser in Miami in 1973

Left column middle picture shows the Pak being pulled on it's trailer in 1973. This picture shows how the orange on the trailer matches the orange of the stripes on the hull. As restored, they no longer match as the orange on the hull is darker

Right column middle picture shows the boat returning to the dock in Kennewick Washington with second driver, George Henley. This means the shot is from either 1974 or 1975

Right column fourth picture shows the boat in a half sunk condition after throwing a propeller blade at the 1973 Gold Cup. This is the only picture I've ever seen that shows the boat at a race with the engine cover actually installed.

Hydro Junkie · Aug 16, 2017

Was any of the above info helpful? I have been doing a lot of research on the Pak as I'm building three of them in various sizes. It's very interesting on how much sworn by information is, in fact, not valid. One such piece is over the boat running with the engine cover. I've had people swear up and down it never happened while one of the photos in the screen shot you posted clearly shows that it did

GraysonTaylor · Aug 16, 2017

Neat stuff. I get the feeling that a lot of changes happened quickly along the way. Could it have been a partice run? I'm still interested in the gold stripe story.

I'm more worried about someone saying that I'm illegal because my pipe is exposed. With a KB and a Prather nitro pipe, it only hung out the back of the drivers box about 1/2 inch. Now that I have the NR and the muffled pipe it hangs way out and I had to remove a large section of the cockpit floor.

Samuel Hagan JR · Aug 16, 2017

The hydroplane museum just redid a pay n pak. Might wanna check that out. Look at there pictures.

Hydro Junkie · Aug 16, 2017

Samuel, they redid the boat as the 1975 version. Not sure if that was owner Ken Muscatel or restoration chief Mike Hanson's call, just the way it was done. Something that was Mike's call is the orange used for the center stripes. He didn't like the look of the original orange so he had it remixed with more red for a darker shade. The engine presently in the boat is the wrong color as well. It should be dark red or a dark orange but, since it was taken from another boat, the 1960 Miss Thriftway, it's shown as presently painted in these pictures:

Grayson, don't know where the shot with gold you saw came from but I can tell you that, plain and simple, the boat NEVER had gold striping or letters on it as the Pak. IIRC, it never had gold on it as the U-6 Miss Madison either. If you want to see videos of the boat running as restored or at the 1974 Gold Cup, check out these videos:

Hydro Junkie · Aug 16, 2017

Just got to thinking. The 70-72 Pak, shown in the Gold Cup video above, as Miss Budweiser, was painted orange, GOLD, black and white when it ran as the Pak as shown below. As far as I know, it was the only picklefork Pak to have gold paint on it

dave weagel · Aug 16, 2017

GraysonTaylor said:
I've seen a picture of an early 70's Pay n Pack with gold striping. Anyone know about this? The picture on my dumas box looks like the U-1 is in gold with the rest in orange. The local graphics guy pointed out that the U-1 on the dumas box did not have the serif on the font while the template on the plans did. Just curious if anyone has info on this.
Thanks for the help.

you might be thinking of the 1978 miss madison version of the 7325 with yellow an black stripes

Hydro Junkie · Aug 16, 2017

Actually, Dave, the stripes were painted with yellow in the center with dark brown on the outside. Just a little additional tidbit, the paint job was done by Bill Muncey's crew before the boat was sent to Madison after the 1977 season. There are actually hard to find pictures of Bill sitting in the cockpit with a Merlin still installed with the Madison paint job on it. BTW, found a shot of the Pak that shows the top of the wing from 74/75

d403e48d974ace2d293c294161b02f75--fast-boats-wooden-boats.jpg

GraysonTaylor · Aug 17, 2017

Faded orange?

Samuel Hagan JR · Aug 17, 2017

That's what I'm thinking.

rbeyer · Aug 17, 2017

Not to go too far off topic, but I really like the slick look with the cowling.

Rick

GraysonTaylor · Aug 17, 2017

Except the helmet looks orange. I'm thinking maybe they tried the gold before ever debuting. Skunk works stage.

Hydro Junkie · Aug 17, 2017

Nope, never had gold on it. Dave Heerenspurger was kind of a strange duck. When he merged his Eagle Electric with Pay'N Pak, the logo became essentially what was put on the deck of the boat in question. It was always a light orange, NEVER GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a shot of the boat, IN RON JONES SHOP NEAR THE END OF IT'S CONSTRUCTION AND, AS CAN BE SEEN THERE IS THE LIGHT ORANGE CENTER STRIPE AND LETTERING BUT NO GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Below is a shot of the turbine Pak, less the tails and wing. Notice, the light orange center stripe and lettering, IT'S THE SAME ORANGE COLOR, NO GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only difference is the black stripes are narrower

Hydro Junkie · Aug 17, 2017

Let's put an end to this debate real quick. Contact former crew chief Jim Lucero. He can be reached at his company, Competition Specialties. The website address is https://www.compspecialties.com/

Hydro Junkie · Aug 17, 2017

rbeyer said:
Not to go too far off topic, but I really like the slick look with the cowling.

Rick

So do I, Rick. Most clubs, however, won't let the boat run with the engine cover since the general consensus is it never raced that way, something that is untrue.

According to most sources that supposedly know the boat's history, the engine cover was only tried in testing while, in actuality, it was also installed at two races in 1973(my source is Jim Lucero, the Pak/Atlas crew chief from 1970-1984). What the crew learned was that the boat was very "flighty" with the cover on the boat and that by removing the cover, the boat settled down. Something else that was discovered was that removing the cover also helped the boat run cooler due to engine heat and exhaust not being held inside the boat. It also didn't hurt the crew's feelings to not have to deal with the cover since it was very heavy. All of the superstructure is made of welded aluminum, including the long lost engine cover that disappeared in the early 1980s.

GraysonTaylor · Aug 17, 2017

Not to worry. I'm not going to commit blasphemy on my model boat. Orange it is! I did enjoy your home video too. Thanks for sharing.

Pay n Pack with gold, not orange

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